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Author Topic: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup  (Read 71833 times)

Andrew

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Re: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2013, 10:00:59 PM »
Going away on a three-day weekend now, but after I return I can share sample photos from multicam setup (600D, D3200 and D7100), if you'd like to compare against your results. I honestly think that D7100 is as sharp as 600D (even has a tiny edge due to more pixels), definitely in a different league than D3200, so perhaps your unit had faulty focus or my kit 18-105lens was sharper, who knows.

-Andrew

I tested a D7100 and there was very little different between it and the D3200. I'm not sure where the razor sharp comes from?




meshmaster

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Re: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2013, 10:02:08 PM »
Ok, on the D3200 I've tried increasing the built-in camera sharpening. At first glance it seems to help, that is until you actually zoom into the image and see that it is producing some horrible grainy noise patterns as well.  More testing is required but i'm not feeling hopeful based on what I'm seeing at the moment.  I don't have a lot of time for further testing today, but will continue as soon as I get a chance.

Cheers,

Joe

Wishgranter

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Re: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2013, 11:26:46 PM »
What software you use for the sharpening stuff  guys ?? Have you tried DXO Optics and play with the LENS SOFTNESS ? DXO calibrate "every" lens with a lot of cameras, so they have one of the best results, but it need few tests to set it properly for that lens+camera..... if can share privately RAW outputs can help with it ( at least few images for later processing with pscan ) .

Another thing is the firmware and as i hear from my friend professional photograph not every batch of cameras is properly calibrated on focusing, he has readjusted the camera and it bring little better results, but i have it not here to show results, but he know what he say....

And another interesting article about the sharpness/blurriness of images is here http://www.maxmax.com/nikon_d700hr.htm and http://www.maxmax.com/olpf_study.htm and read few more things there.....
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 11:32:06 PM by Wishgranter »
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meshmaster

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Re: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2013, 04:12:51 AM »
I came across these test results for the D3200 - Kinda interesting, this might be of some interest to others here.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d3200/nikon-d3200A5.HTM

Cheers,

Joe

mala

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Re: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2013, 10:35:24 AM »
Thanks for the OLPF Study link Wishgranter... a very interesting read and quite relevant to some recent work I've been doing.

Cheers,
Mala

Infinite

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Re: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2013, 01:25:16 PM »
Going away on a three-day weekend now, but after I return I can share sample photos from multicam setup (600D, D3200 and D7100), if you'd like to compare against your results. I honestly think that D7100 is as sharp as 600D (even has a tiny edge due to more pixels), definitely in a different league than D3200, so perhaps your unit had faulty focus or my kit 18-105lens was sharper, who knows.

-Andrew


That would be very interesting to see.

Thanks for the links Wishgranter and Meshmaster.
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meshmaster

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Re: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2013, 02:23:17 PM »
What software you use for the sharpening stuff  guys ?? Have you tried DXO Optics and play with the LENS SOFTNESS ? DXO calibrate "every" lens with a lot of cameras, so they have one of the best results, but it need few tests to set it properly for that lens+camera..... if can share privately RAW outputs can help with it ( at least few images for later processing with pscan ) .

I have been using Lightroom.  I just tried DXO Optics and it seems to do a much better job...much better, quite impressive.

Very interesting... thanks for the great tip Wishgranter!

BTW - Visually, the D3200 really seems to benefit hugely from sharpening.  That said, I've still yet to test the results with an actual PS build, so the actual benefit is still unclear.

Cheers,

Joe

Wishgranter

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Re: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2013, 02:33:44 PM »
MeshMaster, send me sample image to muzeumhb@gmail.com one RAW image, will set my OWN stuff and then will send SETTINGS file + explanation with it back :-) ......
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meshmaster

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Re: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2013, 02:39:47 PM »
MeshMaster, send me sample image to muzeumhb@gmail.com one RAW image, will set my OWN stuff and then will send SETTINGS file + explanation with it back :-) ......

Hi Wishgranter,

Of course, I'd be happy to do that.  It is still early here and I'm not at the office yet.  As soon as I get a chance (later this morning) I will send you the data.  Thank you very much for your assistance with this, I really appreciate it!!!!

Cheers,

Joe

Andrew

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Re: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2013, 04:59:50 PM »
I promised to share sample photos from my test multi-cam capture for IQ comparison between Canon 600D, Nikon D3200 and Nikon D7100, but I can't get my hands on the files right now (damn you, holiday season!), so I just took a few snaps of my coleague here.

All three cams were set to full manual mode, f11, hand held at 1/160s and no image-altering shenanigans, with kit zoom lenses at around 50mm. Used camera's built in flash units, asked the guy not to move around too much :) He doesn't like internet fame so I cropped the images. All in all, not very scientific test but still should give an idea of how these cams compare.


Nikon D3200 with AF-S Nikkor 18-55mm: https://www.dropbox.com/s/raz9e48o7rjkw0v/D3200.JPG

Canon 600d with EF-S 18-55mm: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mjlyc4ejj38lvw5/600D.JPG

Nikon D7100 with AF-S Nikkor 18-105mm: https://www.dropbox.com/s/g7zr8tlh4slwimg/D7100.JPG

meshmaster

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Re: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2013, 05:03:54 PM »
More than ever I am convinced that the D3200 is a camera with some real focus problems.

Cheers,

Joe

chadfx

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Re: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2013, 08:21:11 PM »
I've been reading this thread of judging DSLR image quality of various models. Are any of you testing these cameras with lenses that are sharper than these kit lenses? The kit lenses are almost never known for being super sharp, even when stopped down to a smaller aperture like f11.

Some people say they're garbage and not worth having at all, which I would disagree with, as they can provide decent enough IQ for many uses. But it seems that you are hoping to squeeze every pixel out of them, and they are usually not as good as a decent prime lens (or high end zoom). There are some 3rd party lenses that are generally regarded as very sharp (Sigma comes to mind), and also available in a number of different lens mounts. So you could stick a Sigma 30mm on any Canon or Nikon APS-C body (or Sony, etc) and then you would really be comparing apples to apples.

But if you guys are trying to compare camera bodies that generally evaluate very well in standardized photo tests (DPReview, etc) with these kit lenses, I think you will find the lenses are a bigger source of the softness issues than the camera bodies.

Just throwing it out there...not trying to ruffle feathers. =)

meshmaster

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Re: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2013, 08:33:29 PM »
I've been reading this thread of judging DSLR image quality of various models. Are any of you testing these cameras with lenses that are sharper than these kit lenses? The kit lenses are almost never known for being super sharp, even when stopped down to a smaller aperture like f11.

Some people say they're garbage and not worth having at all, which I would disagree with, as they can provide decent enough IQ for many uses. But it seems that you are hoping to squeeze every pixel out of them, and they are usually not as good as a decent prime lens (or high end zoom). There are some 3rd party lenses that are generally regarded as very sharp (Sigma comes to mind), and also available in a number of different lens mounts. So you could stick a Sigma 30mm on any Canon or Nikon APS-C body (or Sony, etc) and then you would really be comparing apples to apples.

But if you guys are trying to compare camera bodies that generally evaluate very well in standardized photo tests (DPReview, etc) with these kit lenses, I think you will find the lenses are a bigger source of the softness issues than the camera bodies.

Just throwing it out there...not trying to ruffle feathers. =)

No problem!

I've only tested the D3200 with the 18-55 kit lens and the results are rubbish.

Compared to my Canon T2i's or T3i's even using kit lenses the results from the Nikon are of substandard quality.

The truth is that I have not yet tested the D3200's with "good" glass... yet, but I am in the process of doing so.  I've got a few new prime lenses on order and once I've tested I will report my results here.
It is quite possible, that the results that I am seeing are simply down to inferior lenses and I hope that is the case!

Still, so far based on what I've seen based on my own direct testing, the images produced by my Canon's are clearly better... no pun intended  ;)

Cheers,

Joe

chadfx

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Re: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2013, 08:51:33 PM »

Hey Joe, glad to year you have some primes coming. I think (hope) you will find the results much better. Many modern Nikon bodies are well regarded for IQ (at least they shouldn't be 'rubbish' compared to Canon) (ps. I am a Canon owner, so no bias here!) Better lenses can even produce better color and contrast output than lesser counterparts. (notice that I did not say cheaper...more $$$ does not necessarily mean better in a number of cases)

Oh, and I'm also assuming you are testing with RAW images, yes? JPEG output from cameras can also be highly variable, and usually is not quite as sharp as a converted RAW image. Some cameras are fairly notorious for softening out sharper details in their JPEG versions  (usually to suppress noise artifacts) .

Overall image quality is a very slippery slope, and it's easy to get super obsessed about it, and/or only focus (another pun!) on one part of the image pipeline without considering all of the factors.

Cheers, -C

meshmaster

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Re: Most reasonable DSLR for multi-cam face capture setup
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2013, 09:00:32 PM »

Hey Joe, glad to year you have some primes coming. I think (hope) you will find the results much better. Many modern Nikon bodies are well regarded for IQ (at least they shouldn't be 'rubbish' compared to Canon) (ps. I am a Canon owner, so no bias here!) Better lenses can even produce better color and contrast output than lesser counterparts. (notice that I did not say cheaper...more $$$ does not necessarily mean better in a number of cases)

Oh, and I'm also assuming you are testing with RAW images, yes? JPEG output from cameras can also be highly variable, and usually is not quite as sharp as a converted RAW image. Some cameras are fairly notorious for softening out sharper details in their JPEG versions  (usually to suppress noise artifacts) .

Overall image quality is a very slippery slope, and it's easy to get super obsessed about it, and/or only focus (another pun!) on one part of the image pipeline without considering all of the factors.

Cheers, -C

We are on the same page and I totally agree in the importance of quality lenses!

Honestly, I was shocked by the poor images quality that I've been experiencing with the D3200 so much so that I would have considered the camera to have been defective had I not also had 7 more of them to test against... all of them exhibited very poor focus.

Yes, all my testing has been done with RAW images, camera on tripod with studio lighting, ISO 100, 1/125 sec, F10 - F11

Re: The kit lens I've tested it at 18mm, 55mm & 35mm.

I also have no bias against Nikon whatsoever... I'm just going purely on what I see from my tests.

No one hopes more than I that some good prime lenses will solve this issue and I will certainly share my findings one way or the other.

I'll keep you posted!

Cheers,

Joe

« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 09:08:02 PM by meshmaster »