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Author Topic: Cannot place markers when using fiducials in ver. 1.4.0 build 5420  (Read 2031 times)

Erik Holmlund

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Hi,
I'm very interested in the new fiducial support, as it greatly reduces the effort of using analog imagery. I can however not make it work completely, as marker placement seems non-functional.

If I use the images separately as non-analog, the marker placement works (as bad as it does without fiducials). If I specify the fiducials and place a marker, it ends up on the other side of the solar system. Below is an example of an estimated coordinate I get, from a point added through the sparse point cloud:

East 8 144 283.304 m
North: 13 169 867.186 m
Altitude: 7 982 093 517.095 m

The pixel error is also massive, at 2895.922.

My suspicion is that the internal coordinate system produced by fiducial placement is wrong, creating invalid marker projections and therefore the position. The fiducials I have in the same project are:

X,Y in millimeters, with the focal length: 152.83 mm
Upper left: -106.073, 105.904
Upper right: 105.919, 106.098
Lower right: 106.06, -105.902
Lower left: -105.906, -106.099

I've tried it in several projects, and with different X and Y directions (positive X or negative X etc.). I've also tried the calibrate fiducials tool with no change.

Reproducing the problem is as easy as importing the images, placing fiducials, calibrating them, aligning the images and then placing a marker in the point cloud.

I would love to have the tool working, but evidently it's clearly not!

Alexey Pasumansky

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Re: Cannot place markers when using fiducials in ver. 1.4.0 build 5420
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2017, 07:09:52 PM »
Hello eriksh,

Please check build 5432 of PhotoScan Pro 1.4.0 (available in the pre-release thread). There were fixes related to fiducial marks included.

However, I can suggest to start the project from scratch, if possible, in order to avoid possible mess of fiducials and markers from the previous version project.
Best regards,
Alexey Pasumansky,
AgiSoft LLC

Erik Holmlund

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Re: Cannot place markers when using fiducials in ver. 1.4.0 build 5420
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2017, 07:19:15 PM »
Hi Alexey,
I had completely missed the latest build! Now it works like a charm.

Thanks!

Alexey Pasumansky

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Re: Cannot place markers when using fiducials in ver. 1.4.0 build 5420
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2017, 07:57:57 PM »
Hello eriksh,

Ok. Let me know, if there are any other issues (or requests) related to the workflow with fiducial marks.
Best regards,
Alexey Pasumansky,
AgiSoft LLC

Erik Holmlund

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Re: Cannot place markers when using fiducials in ver. 1.4.0 build 5420
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2017, 04:48:38 PM »
Hello again,
I seem to have been a bit quick in saying it works perfectly, since I have quite the list of bugs.

  • When exporting markers and reimporting them, the fiducials show up in the markers panel, with image coordinates as reference coords. If they're removed, the fiducials on the image are removed as well.
  • If I add a new fiducial in an image, it doesn't show up in the camera calibration. The only way to then remove it is using the console (chunk.remove(chunk.markers[-1]).
  • If I have a good (subpixel) alignment on the 'fiducial chunk' and specify the projections of three GCP's, they show up correctly in the point cloud, with reasonable pixel errors. I can then properly align two chunks with the same GCP's using Align Chunks (with markers). If I however give the GCP's reference information and update the transform, the errors shoot up to thousands of meters. The whole terrain is also vertical. I know that the GCP's have correct coordinates, since I can align them with Align Chunks to a chunk with digital imagery.

    If I subsequently run Optimize Cameras (with marker reference data unchecked), the whole alignment goes haywire, with both marker and camera reprojection error ranging from 52-1483 pixels. If I run the optimization with reference checked, the errors are even higher at 1269-7553 pixels.
  • I also noticed something weird after using Align Chunks with markers on the fiducial chunk. If I look around in the model that I used to align, everything is normal. If I however switch to the fiducial chunk and rotate the camera, the whole model jumps so that everything is tilted by maybe 10 degrees. If I just move the camera, nothing happens.

The only thing I suspect I might do differently is to rotate the images in PhotoScan so they face north. Could that mess with the fiducials?

I'd love to help out with providing projects and such, if it might help.

Alexey Pasumansky

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Re: Cannot place markers when using fiducials in ver. 1.4.0 build 5420
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2017, 05:40:55 PM »
Hello eriksh,

Thanks again for reporting.

It seems that fiducials type is not properly read from the XML when you import back markers. Also currently fiducials were really used as markers in the marker-based chunk alignment, that caused the problems you were observing. We will fix these issues in the next 1.4.0 update. Also the problem with New Fiducial that is not added to the fiducials list.
Best regards,
Alexey Pasumansky,
AgiSoft LLC

Erik Holmlund

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Re: Cannot place markers when using fiducials in ver. 1.4.0 build 5420
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2017, 06:12:04 PM »
Nice to hear!

To clarify, marker-based chunk alignment works well. It's the chunk update and optimization that don't work for me.

Alexey Pasumansky

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Re: Cannot place markers when using fiducials in ver. 1.4.0 build 5420
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2017, 06:48:38 PM »
Hello eriksh,

Ok, I'll double check the reported problem with optimization/update.
Best regards,
Alexey Pasumansky,
AgiSoft LLC

Alexey Pasumansky

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Re: Cannot place markers when using fiducials in ver. 1.4.0 build 5420
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2017, 05:57:52 PM »
Hello eriksh,

The new update of 1.4.0 is out now (build 5532), so I can suggest to check it out when you have time for that.
Best regards,
Alexey Pasumansky,
AgiSoft LLC

Erik Holmlund

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Re: Cannot place markers when using fiducials in ver. 1.4.0 build 5420
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2017, 07:05:13 PM »
Hi,
I just updated to build 5532 and it seems to be working in the two instances I tested! I'll update on any issues if they arise. But for now, thank you for these great new features!

jooles

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Re: Cannot place markers when using fiducials in ver. 1.4.0 build 5420
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2018, 11:17:41 AM »
Hi,
I'm struggling to use the fiducials for aerial photos calibration.
I could input the coordinate in the calibration menu, then locate them on the photos. But optimize don't give good result.

Probably it's not the good workflow.
Could you give a workflow on how to correctly use fiducials for an aerial picture project?

cheers,
jules

Erik Holmlund

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Re: Cannot place markers when using fiducials in ver. 1.4.0 build 5420
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2018, 12:09:40 PM »
Hi jooles,
Are you sure you're using the coordinate signs (plus/minus) in the right direction? I had issues to begin with, where I set y as positive when it was supposed to be negative there, and so on.

If you don't know which dimensions should be positive or negative, I'd suggest doing an automatic calibration of the fiducials' position when you've placed them correctly. The numbers will likely be wrong, depending on which pixel size you use, but then you can note where the positive/negative signs should be.

jooles

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Re: Cannot place markers when using fiducials in ver. 1.4.0 build 5420
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2018, 02:11:16 PM »
Hi Erik,

thanks for the very quick answer,

I'm don't know how to do this automatic calibration using the fiducials. Is it an optimize in the reference panel? Is it a right click on the images in the calibration panel and a "calibrate fiducials"?

More generally, is there a documentation on this workflow?

Jules

Erik Holmlund

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Re: Cannot place markers when using fiducials in ver. 1.4.0 build 5420
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2018, 02:32:37 PM »
Hi,
It's the "Calibrate Fiducials" that I was talking about.

I would also love some documentation, as I'm only by experience convinced that I'm doing everything correctly!

Alexey Pasumansky

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Re: Cannot place markers when using fiducials in ver. 1.4.0 build 5420
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2018, 01:54:36 PM »
Hello,

Just as a side not regarding fiducials support, in the version 1.4.2 it is planned to release the feature of automatic fiducials detection (providing they have generally circle shape - the presence of crosshair elements do not matter).
Best regards,
Alexey Pasumansky,
AgiSoft LLC