Agisoft Metashape

Agisoft Metashape => Face and Body Scanning => Topic started by: Magnus on June 12, 2013, 02:08:00 AM

Title: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Magnus on June 12, 2013, 02:08:00 AM
Hello all!

My brother and I have been doing lots of testing the last couple of months and things are really progressing (and changing drastically along the way). I thought I'd just share some initial points of interest.

Currently we have 16xCanon 1100D, 2xCanon 600D and 4xNikon D3200 which actually works without issues on just one laptop running Smart Shooter (no liveview on the D3200 though). We will be adding more Nikons soon and see if any issues pop up.
Might seem like an odd mix but there is a reason behind it, hehe. 
What we've been experimenting with is full-body capture using noise projected by DLP projectors and texture captured by cameras synced with flash.
The Nikons (as Lee and others has reported elsewhere) are damn good! We've managed to use our 4 at 1/200 shutter with flash (half-press seems to increase reliability, it also gives the option of having autofocus even with flash).
Our plan for full-body capture is (which could always change as we've experienced during our previous testing ;D) to use the Canons at low f-stop and around 1/50 or so shutter together with projectors to get geometry and the Nikons at high shutterspeed and f-stop at almost the same time synced with flash to get texture (it will not see the projected pattern due to the high settings). This will not be able to capture movement but should provide a decent starting point. It also seems as if, with some care, that even somewhat useable results can be gotten from shiny fabrics like satin for instance (varying the size of the projected pattern etc).

We will also use the same cameras for portrait, something we are quite close to getting (we will be trying with different types of hair to see what's possible).

I will share some pictures and some more info as it progresses.

Best, Magnus.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: andy_s on June 13, 2013, 11:47:17 AM
Interesting stuff [as always] Magnus. Looking forward to this one hitting the streets.

If the rotating light tent [that never was] had been fitted with wings it might have "taken off"  ;) - super research though !
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Infinite on June 14, 2013, 01:08:42 PM
I'm interested to see your results.

I can tell you from experience you need SUPER bright projectors. I feel the current range of projectors even in 2013 are lacking in functionality compared to price. Much like HMD's were in the 90's. Companies are milking the franchise/industry.

There just aren't any suitable affordable projectors on the market. I know because I have a large collection of varying types. 20+

Also if you try and use more than 4 projectors at HD you will suffer problems, you need allot of signal boosters and powered splitters. Sending an HD signal across multiple projectors is very hard, without producing drop outs. It's possible but tricky. Something to bare in mind. This is for 360 capture though. 1 or 2 projectors is easy, especially at 1280x800.

So back to my main point. I wouldn't recommend anything lower than 4000 lumens.

LED and laser are the future. Laser not producing any DOF what so ever and LED with very long life spans.

Current DLP's deteriorate very quickly  :-\ Manufacturers also strongly recommend NOT to use them in portrait as they burn out, fast!
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Magnus on June 15, 2013, 11:50:45 PM
Hello!

We started testing this due to the troubles we found with dof when we got to shoulder-to-shoulder, had to get the 1100Ds in pretty close to get them to see the clothtexture and it would mean having to go the route of more cameras, hehe. We found that the lack of brightness wasn't such a problem due to being so zoomed out.

Here are some of our earlier results. As can maybe be discerned from the screencaps this was with only 2 projectors (Acer H5360 and Optoma HD65), both of them are 720P.
This wasn't masked or anything and is pretty crude but should give a hint of what's possible.
The cameras were set at f5.6, 1/20th shutter and iso100. It was shot at 18mm with the kit lenses.
Zoomed out like this, with a distance of about 1 m to the subject, f5.6 should give about 76 cm near limit and a total dof of around 73 cm.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gd6g2kkpgs5xa6e/130520_Brustest_01.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/gd6g2kkpgs5xa6e/130520_Brustest_01.jpg)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/buvpcqajolxrvss/130520_Brustest_02.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/buvpcqajolxrvss/130520_Brustest_02.jpg)

I hope those works, hehe.

On this test we first took shots with projectors on, with a noisepattern, then changed to black (layers in Gimp... hence the scrollbars and menus being present :P just testing after all... ) and took another bunch of shots with flash (this was without proper diffusion, just a test). Then we did the model from the noiseshots and then switched them out and did texture with the flashshots.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e67tc3ug217r3yu/130523_Brustest_01.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/e67tc3ug217r3yu/130523_Brustest_01.jpg)

I will have more stuff to share soon.

Andy, the light tent might actually be resurrected... more to come ;)

Best, Magnus.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Infinite on June 16, 2013, 12:16:00 AM
Some very interesting test results. It will good to see future tests and how the faces, hands and full 360 would come out. For 1100D the results are very acceptable! f5.6 is certainly OK for standing arms down type shots, but anything more dynamic with greater distances involved DOF will kick in.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: mala on June 16, 2013, 01:14:14 AM
Nice work Magnus
The results are looking good!
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: jeancampos on June 16, 2013, 03:57:41 AM
Magnus, thank you for sharing your work process.

But I did not understand exactly how noiseprojection contributed to improving the scan. Could you explain?

The results are really exciting.  ;D
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Magnus on June 16, 2013, 10:35:39 PM
Hello!

Lee, most likely we will use the head captured this way more for reference (or add some zoomed in cameras). I will try some more with different distances and such later (we are getting short on space though, hehe).

Thanks, mala.

Jean, since I use few cameras and their view will cover a larger area I cannot get enough fine detail in the images that PhotoScan needs for reconstruction. This is also a problem if the subject you are shooting is too uniform. So using projected noise PhotoScan can find a lot more points it can use. 
I hope these following images will make it a bit clearer.

This first one was shot just with flash and as you can see it got 15877 points.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3f7v9iwnhjz8afj/130523_Brustest_04.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/3f7v9iwnhjz8afj/130523_Brustest_04.jpg)
Here is the resulting model.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1t1z8xjc7plr5i/130523_Brustest_05.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1t1z8xjc7plr5i/130523_Brustest_05.jpg)

This next one we used the projectors too and this is what we got, 45733 points.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p5kyc8rm6zgmbn0/130523_Brustest_02.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/p5kyc8rm6zgmbn0/130523_Brustest_02.jpg)
Here is the resulting model from this one.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hmbp5l825znd4td/130523_Brustest_03.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/hmbp5l825znd4td/130523_Brustest_03.jpg)

So as you can see it does make quite a difference and I think this can be quite useful. Of note should also be that this was with two projectors and not too much care taken to coverage so keep that in mind.

Best, Magnus.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Magnus on June 16, 2013, 10:54:44 PM
Hello again!

Just a small addition.

This subject is one of those plastic mannequin which has basically no texture, without noise projected it would not yield any usable points. The red part of the clothing is a shiny satin material which also gives huge problems. The results are noisy (especially the satin since it creates reflections) but better than nothing, hehe.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6s1kj0cz9lbzfpx/130607_Brustest_01.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6s1kj0cz9lbzfpx/130607_Brustest_01.jpg)

This was with only one projector from the bottom front and the texture is from the D3200s which was synced with flash (the projector was on the whole time but due to the high settings on the D3200s the noise doesn't show up). We used 4 of them for texture and they were up high so coverage is not great, hehe. What's really neat is that PhotoScan manages to properly align the D3200s with the other cameras even though the lighting is very different. :D

Best, Magnus.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Infinite on June 16, 2013, 11:26:38 PM
Very interesting and inspiring test results Magnus. Projection surely has many benefits with less cameras and certain clothing. I would be interested to know the settings you used for noise cameras and flash cameras? I've always had some form of noise visible if all cameras are synced together, using mixed settings.

It's possible of course to fire twice but even the slightest delay between fires you will get subject movement. So that method isn't desirable.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Magnus on June 17, 2013, 01:17:15 AM
Hello Lee!

For this test we had the Nikons at f14 and 1/200th shutter as highest and the Canons at f4.5 and 1/20th shutter, iso100 for both. There is actually a tiny bit of noise still present on the lower part of the satin where it shines the most and a bit on the legs (for this we used the Benq W710ST and it was pretty close to the subject). Turning down the brightness should solve that but I was incorrect in my previous statement. Sorry about that.

Here's an example of the one I posted before but this time with only flash.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hkiyi08ieux7jpz/130607_Brustest_02.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/hkiyi08ieux7jpz/130607_Brustest_02.jpg)

There will be some slight delay due to the D3200 going first with flash and then the Canons so it is not a perfect system but atleast a good steppingstone, hehe.

Best, Magnus.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Magnus on June 17, 2013, 01:43:11 AM
Hello again!

Here's a crop of two D3200 images at f14 1/200 and f4.5 and 1/20 which shows the noise still present.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z0aoflqpxvlidkq/130617_Brustest_01.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/z0aoflqpxvlidkq/130617_Brustest_01.jpg)

Best, Magnus.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: jeancampos on June 17, 2013, 04:38:01 AM
Hello Magnus,

The results are really amazing, even using few cameras, you have done a great job. Comparing the two images you sent is the sharp jump in the quality of the calculation points Photoscan.

The choice of D3200 unlike the canons, the investment was for a better result in the capture of color?

I Think about how to apply it to results of facial scan, capture small pores and skin surfaces. Have you tried using projection and continuous light at the same time? It's a question I have, as spoken by Lee would have to switch the time between catching texture and capture points, correct?

Best Jean Campos
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Infinite on June 17, 2013, 11:46:38 AM
Hello again!

Here's a crop of two D3200 images at f14 1/200 and f4.5 and 1/20 which shows the noise still present.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z0aoflqpxvlidkq/130617_Brustest_01.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/z0aoflqpxvlidkq/130617_Brustest_01.jpg)

Best, Magnus.

Very interesting results Magnus. It's the same method I tried back in 2009-10 with scanner killer and DI's software. Noise being present in the colour is always an issue sadly. But noise projection greatly improves results.

Doing split double capture of noise and colour is possible but even if we are able to sync at 1/200 you have to have a significant delay between each shot 0.24 seconds min, which leads to allot of subject movement  :-[ which means a big mismatch on using the colour texture on the noise scan. For static object it's fine.

An ideal scenario is infra red noise projection but this is very hard to do. As there isn't a decent IR projection system on the market and would also be costly converting DSLR to IR.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Magnus on June 19, 2013, 02:46:10 AM
Hello!

Jean, actually a big reason that we got the D3200s was that they got supported by Smart Shooter and that their price was cheaper than the Canon 600D, hehe. With the 1100D I cannot quite get the level of detail that I want (for portrait) in the way that I want.
We will be going the Nikon route since they are great and we have some more D3200s on the way!
We intend to use the same rig for capturing faces but this will be done without any noise, it is not actually needed for this and would probably create more problems due to reflections.

Here you can see some results that we've gotten.

In this first one we processed at High quality. We had the front cameras closer to the subject and the cameras on the back a bit further out.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ej3fs4i2fs02fi/130610_Brustest_01.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ej3fs4i2fs02fi/130610_Brustest_01.jpg)
Much better results than this can be had by having the cameras closer together (closer stereo-pairs) but we are trying to find some good middle ground with coverage in mind too.

This is from the same as before but cropped and processed at Ultra High.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2lnfom78rfbly12/130612_Brustest_01.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2lnfom78rfbly12/130612_Brustest_01.jpg)

We will process at High setting since the Ultra High takes too long and we retrieve the small details from the texture map as can be seen in this one.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uj872lln5lth30f/130615_ZBtest_01.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/uj872lln5lth30f/130615_ZBtest_01.jpg)
For this I decimated the model down to 200000 in PS and then I just did smoothing on it and no other cleanup. I am a beginner when it comes to post-processing so keep that in mind.

I have done tests with continuous light but the problem is that I currently don't have strong enough light to have them usable when diffused. Also for the portrait they aren't enough since one has to have pretty high f stop to get enough dof.

Lee, I seem to recall that SK had some pretty good guides about noise projection, hehe. I have some things in mind that I will be trying and I will share the results here later.
Funny you mention IR, I was actually thinking about having some cams converted (seems to cost about as much as a camera though :P) and using a bunch of kinects with the glasses mod (so as to minimize the patterns) to do this but I simply cannot due to budget reasons, hehe.
Another thought in that vein was making DIY projectors with some such lightsource.
I guess with the upcoming Kinect 2 and others that those might be a waste though, hehe.

Best, Magnus.



Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Ecsplorer on June 19, 2013, 10:34:25 PM
Hi Magnus, hi all,

pretty interesting thread.

I wonder how do you sync the projectors and how do you control delays and such?
Would you mind to share?

Best regards
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Magnus on June 20, 2013, 09:56:31 PM
Hello Ecsplorer!

We don't really do any sync with the projectors, just split the signal from one computer.
Delays will be present in the noisecapture due to the 1100Ds having somewhat inconsistent shutter lag (time from pressing trigger to shutter activating).
For example when we tried syncing with flash and having the shutter at 1/50, 2 or 3 cameras (out of 12 or 14 1100Ds I think it was) had black images each time but it was random which cameras lagged, hehe.
3 more D3200s arrived today and we will try some more tests in the coming days.
And going forward the way we will control delays is using something like Camera Axe http://www.cameraaxe.com/ (http://www.cameraaxe.com/) (possibly their Multi-Flash Plus too).
We are thinking of using the light trigger and connect it to the Canon group so that the Nikons trigger together with flash and then the flash activates the trigger for the Canons. What we will see is if the shutter lag is short (it will most likely be over 40ms though) enough to not induce too much movement error.
Another way would just be to have the Canons set to a delay that insures that they will trigger as shortly after flash as possible.

Best, Magnus.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Ecsplorer on June 22, 2013, 09:27:48 AM
Hey Magnus,

thanks! The Camera Axe things seems really interesting.

Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: andy_s on June 22, 2013, 12:13:13 PM
Hi Escplorer,

it does appear to be very good - and very expandable. You can even measure shutter lag without the need for an oscilloscope:

http://www.techphotoblog.com/tpb-13/ (http://www.techphotoblog.com/tpb-13/)
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: tmpdev on June 24, 2013, 05:42:20 AM
@Magnus: We will process at High setting since the Ultra High takes too long and we retrieve the small details from the texture map as can be seen in this one.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uj872lln5lth30f/130615_ZBtest_01.jpg
For this I decimated the model down to 200000 in PS and then I just did smoothing on it and no other cleanup. I am a beginner when it comes to post-processing so keep that in mind


Hello Magnus, This is exactly what I am interested in achieving using Nikon as well. I am very pleased with your end result in Zbrush! I know you said you used smoothing only(forgive any question that may seem dumb)...was that for the imported obj mesh? How many cameras did you use to get the head geometry you imported into Zbrush(the screenshot)? I am new to Zbrush, but it will obviously be a critical part of my workflow. With regard to Smart Shooter, does it fire multiple cameras at once? Do you hook all usb connections to a usb repeater and then to the computer? Please explain your setup in detail in it's not problem. And lastly, I think I understood you to say that for facial capture, there is no need for a projector.

Kind Regards,

tmpdev
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Magnus on June 27, 2013, 07:11:28 PM
Hello tmpdev!

For that one it was mostly Canons actually, hehe. Here you can see the layout of the cameras.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dkd7rk8xlqje22y/130613_Magnus_Test_01.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/dkd7rk8xlqje22y/130613_Magnus_Test_01.jpg)

A you can see this does not have total coverage but we were just doing some rough tests during this shoot (you will for example see some noise below the chin in the next pictures). This is not the best layout either, the results were a bit noisy due to distance between cameras and zoom. It does give a hint of what can be done though.
Having stereopairs close together for the face in particular is something we've found to give better results. Then depending on how much you need of the hair/back of the head you could increase the distance between the cameras in the back.

Here is the mesh decimated down to 200000 in PS.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/28obvd01awmjfbe/130613_Magnus_Test_02.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/28obvd01awmjfbe/130613_Magnus_Test_02.jpg)

!Word of caution: I am basically just messing about in ZBrush and I am a novice with it so this is most likely a non-optimal workflow, hehe. Maybe someone else can chime in on some pointers.!

Then I imported into ZBrush, did "Polish Crisp Edges", removed some noise from the chin with Smoothbrush, DynaMesh and UV Master. Next I re-imported into PS and it looks like this (smoothing a bit too harsh maybe but this was just a test ;) ).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3u4k2tkd29l6mg8/130613_Magnus_Test_03.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/3u4k2tkd29l6mg8/130613_Magnus_Test_03.jpg)

I then just made a texture with Keep UV option and imported it into ZBrush.

This is how the model looks in ZBrush.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u4dzoxrg3yi9yqy/130615_ZBtest_02.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/u4dzoxrg3yi9yqy/130615_ZBtest_02.jpg)

Then I Subdivide the mesh, make a mask from the texture and then I go into Deformation and Size and get this result. On another test not shown here I did some tricks in Gimp and I turned the facialhairs into white to get them to go outwards.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p92r44wr8uycatc/130615_ZBtest_03.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/p92r44wr8uycatc/130615_ZBtest_03.jpg)

Again I am just showing the way I am playing around in ZBrush, hopefully someone with more knowledge can add some better information.

The triggering of the cameras we do with a simple corded shutter release and a bunch of 3.5mm audio splitters, Smart Shooter we use to change settings and get the pictures off the cameras into the computer. We have the cameras connected to unpowered USB hubs and then to a powered usb extender cable going into a laptop.
For this particular shoot we used a Speedlite on one of the Canons set to 1/20th shutter with second curtain shutter and the rest of the cameras at 1/5th shutter (so that the 1100Ds can trigger within the timeframe of the flash). The Speedlite in turn triggers the other three studioflashes we use (one laying down behind me with showercurtain over it, hehe). We shoot two of the flashes thru white cloth (IKEA showercurtain :P) to get diffusion. This is due to current lack of space, we will have more flashes with diffusion around the subject.

The harsh light of the projectors is something that makes it less suitable (in my limited testing) for capturing the face, it does not really add anything if you can get sufficient detail without it.

We have some plans to try infrared and maybe capturing UV... Hopefully we have something we can show soon.

Best, Magnus.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: scanlab.ca on June 29, 2013, 10:37:45 PM
thanks for sharing your info Magnus!
hi just a quick question, why not trigger with smart shooter instead of remote?  i'd like to be able to software trigger canon and nikon dslrs.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Magnus on July 01, 2013, 04:42:35 AM
Hello edgeArchitect!

The problem with triggering over USB is that it is one camera after the other, so quite a lot of delay introduced (the technical details have been discussed in this forum before, can't remember where though, hehe). As far as I know there is no way to trigger thru software without significant delays.

Best, Magnus.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: scanlab.ca on July 01, 2013, 06:07:28 AM
thanks Magnus! yes we are having that problem with trigger delay. appreciate the info!
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: jeancampos on July 02, 2013, 10:28:19 PM

Hello Magnus

I am very grateful for the help you have given to beginners like us.
I want to share with you the great results with our Rig 13 X Canon 1100D using noiseprojection with a projector EPSON 800x600. We had a fantastic difference of the results of the cloud in PS.


Result without the projector:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10237587/Artes_Web/Forum/Agisoft/Screenshot%20on%207.1.2013%20at%2010.17.26%20AM.png

Results using the projector:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10237587/Artes_Web/Forum/Agisoft/Screenshot%20on%207.1.2013%20at%2010.17.15%20AM.png

We are buying a HD projector, and the used here was borrowed rs. I think the next test will be more complete. Our rig allows us to only 180 ° for facial scan, we are buying 19 more DSLRs to be able to complete the 360 ° and thus get a more complete result. Magnus, I researched thoroughly the Nikon D3200, and I believe we will make a Hybrid Rig, our 13 Canons + 19 Nikons, I expect a more refined result, for pores and small details of expression, something that Canon still with no success.

I'm also thinking about how to solve the problem of texture. In this section we had to process the 24 images, and 12 images with projector to generate the model, and 12 images without it on only to generate the texture, unfortunately the PS does not allow designing the texture images added later output would be the same for the projection Zbrush and Mudbox. I saw that Lee suffered the same problem, and I wonder how to solve.

Here, the refered pictures.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10237587/Artes_Web/Forum/Agisoft/Screenshot%20on%207.1.2013%20at%2010.18.12%20AM.png

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10237587/Artes_Web/Forum/Agisoft/Screenshot%20on%207.1.2013%20at%2010.19.21%20AM.png

Testing continues. I'm thinking of testing small objects and see the possible results.

Thanks to all!



Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Magnus on July 03, 2013, 05:34:40 AM
Hello Jean!

Great tests! It can make quite a difference.

The Canons should be good for human faces though (without any projection).

Do try different distances between the cameras, it can make quite a difference.
As you can see in this test with 6 1100Ds that by keeping them close together (kind of like stereopairs) you get a lot of detail.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w9vy0u9jtn3opfv/130322_Magnus_Test_01.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/w9vy0u9jtn3opfv/130322_Magnus_Test_01.jpg)

This is how the cameras were set up.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y7ek6z2hn9f96t5/130322_Magnus_Test_02.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/y7ek6z2hn9f96t5/130322_Magnus_Test_02.jpg)

Also mixing different crops can work pretty well.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0k4ofd3zeh24cvb/130419_Magnus_Test_01.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0k4ofd3zeh24cvb/130419_Magnus_Test_01.jpg)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fhqh312ztswpy7m/130419_Magnus_Test_02.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/fhqh312ztswpy7m/130419_Magnus_Test_02.jpg)

I will hopefully this week get the rig set up, we've taken it down to change the mounting of the cameras (will show soon, it was the cheapest way I could find ;) Manfrotto Super Clamp, some steel plates and some screws, hehe).

I have a lot more things coming up, hehe.

Something I am thinking of trying is converting camera(s) to full-spectrum. That way I can shoot IR with an IR filter and then still use it as a normal camera with a color correcting filter.
See this video as an example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpYRraBniOA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpYRraBniOA)

Then I will use several Kinects (or Xtions) as IR noise-pattern projectors. Here you can see what its pattern looks like (scroll down quite a bit).
 
http://www.futurepicture.org/?p=97 (http://www.futurepicture.org/?p=97)

This I think could be quite an interesting test, might even try some 4D with that, hehe.

Best, Magnus.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Infinite on July 03, 2013, 01:03:35 PM

Then I will use several Kinects (or Xtions) as IR noise-pattern projectors. Here you can see what its pattern looks like (scroll down quite a bit).
 
http://www.futurepicture.org/?p=97 (http://www.futurepicture.org/?p=97)

This I think could be quite an interesting test, might even try some 4D with that, hehe.


Not meaning to burst your bubble Magnus but it might save you some money. Here are some 4D examples I took back in early 2011 using 2x stereo pairs.

(http://www.ir-ltd.net/uploads/Agi-Lee-4D-Shots-01-sml.jpg) (http://www.ir-ltd.net/uploads/Agi-Lee-4D-Shots-01.jpg)

Sadly the Kinect IR pattern really isn't suitable for scanning, more so for motion capture. The laser is diffracted through a hard etched patten and prime sense aren't intereted in modifying the pattern unless someone can place a multi-million unit order : / There are IR DLP projectors on the market but they average about ?20,000 each.

IR isn't ideal because skin absorbs that wavelength of light, meaning you don't get enough contrast. It's one reason why the actual in box kinect scans suck, as well as with photogrammetry. UV would be better but using UV flashes it dangerous for the skin and eyes.

Random image from the net:

(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/8/3/1344009908515/Portraits-shot-using-ultr-004.jpg)

Best,
Lee
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Wishgranter on July 03, 2013, 01:37:49 PM
Guys its nice to see test results like these, BUT. im highly recommend to save for consultation with Lee, he go throught all thinkable configurations of possible improvements in last few years. so you get a lot of real info on what is good, what bad, and as im say in few earlier cooments, its worth all that money !!!!

From what im see in forum and few scanndata, results are not wery well, and think on two constants, time + money :-) you will try going to buy devices that cannot do what you intent, because you lack the knowlege and stuff around it. If im can say, trying build a fullbody scanner you waste aprox 10.000-20.000 EUR on not usefful hw ( sw ) and your results will be poor = more money, more time, more distraction, time-to-market and etc......

Lee can be seen as the mentor of fullbody scans, he has a lot of knowlege and understanding of all nescesary hw stuff, its a very complex stuff, one of the hardest.....


Im have earlier  discussing few things with Lee, and just from that SMALL info im get a lot of improvements on my data, not to say about the datast what im get from him ( my client was there for capturing photos ). And im cannot and want not give that info, just under some special things as we get scann data of Stewe Wozniak and few other VIP people, that was onetime exception because it wil not hapen anytime soon again........ 


 
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: mala on July 03, 2013, 03:12:48 PM
Have to agree with Lee on the use of IR, whatever method you use to project the IR pattern you still come up against the problem of skin absorbing IR well and hence giving a you a blurry result when looking at fine detail.
You are better off just having more hi res images(cams) with a bright evenly diffused lighting scheme.

UV is possibly of interest but i think mainly for motion capture, think using a UV make up diluted down and speckle sprayed on the face then illuminate with "disco style" UV lights or UV canon as we call them http://www.soundsavers.com/shop/all-lighting/special-effects-lighting/uv---blacklight/products/acme-400w-u-v--cannon.html?utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google+Shopping+Results&utm_medium=Product+Feed&gclid=COT1vvehk7gCFSXMtAodmloAAg (http://www.soundsavers.com/shop/all-lighting/special-effects-lighting/uv---blacklight/products/acme-400w-u-v--cannon.html?utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google+Shopping+Results&utm_medium=Product+Feed&gclid=COT1vvehk7gCFSXMtAodmloAAg)
Used in small doses these lights are perfectly safe they are after all certified for disco/show use.

At the end of the day I still think you're better off with just more cameras and white light.

One little trick that may also help to retrieve finer detail is to use just the blue element of your RGB images for processing mesh build, as skin absorbs red light well but reflects Green a bit and even more so Blue light.
The blue wavelength therefore brings out sharper detail because it hasn't been rattled around inside the skin whist subject to subsurface scattering unlike the red light.


cheers,
mala
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Infinite on July 03, 2013, 03:46:06 PM
BTW Magnus, you're already getting very good results! keep experimenting.

The more experiments and different cameras positions and settings you try the more you will know what works for you. As there is no manual for this, no real right or wrong way. Lots of options to get different types of results  :)
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Infinite on July 03, 2013, 04:23:53 PM

UV is possibly of interest but i think mainly for motion capture, think using a UV make up diluted down and speckle sprayed on the face then illuminate with "disco style" UV lights or UV canon as we call them http://www.soundsavers.com/shop/all-lighting/special-effects-lighting/uv---blacklight/products/acme-400w-u-v--cannon.html?utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google+Shopping+Results&utm_medium=Product+Feed&gclid=COT1vvehk7gCFSXMtAodmloAAg (http://www.soundsavers.com/shop/all-lighting/special-effects-lighting/uv---blacklight/products/acme-400w-u-v--cannon.html?utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google+Shopping+Results&utm_medium=Product+Feed&gclid=COT1vvehk7gCFSXMtAodmloAAg)
Used in small doses these lights are perfectly safe they are after all certified for disco/show use.

At the end of the day I still think you're better off with just more cameras and white light.


Similar to Mova Contour - http://www.mova.com/

I would be interested to see how the mixture of normal light is with using those ACME 400W and UV converted cameras. i.e. some cameras for UV some for colour.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: jeancampos on July 05, 2013, 08:45:30 PM
Hi Magnus

Incredible same result you had with only 6 cameras, have to understand what I'm doing wrong.

This is a test I did using 10 cameras.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10237587/Artes_Web/Forum/Agisoft/foto% 20% 283% 29.JPG

But alignment centered on each camera is generating much noise in the nose, I'm having trouble with that.

But this result is not correct, I redesigned the space where the scans happen, I built a room all white, and realinhei towers for a set of 180? with 30? spaces each. The cameras are focusing on automatic and ISO 100, with 18 -55 mm lens. Today I will test the new rig, and see.

My dream is to reach ul result close to this:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10237587/Artes_Web/Forum/Agisoft/Grey-Large.jpg

Let us work.
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: jeancampos on July 09, 2013, 06:20:03 AM
Hello Magnus,

As was previously spoken, We made ??new tests with the new Rig scan in our studio, we use two lighting Daylights (5500K each) + 2 Flashs + 1 Octagon for  inferior lighting. With the following settings: F: 9, 1/20 and ISO 100

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10237587/Artes_Web/Forum/Agisoft/Captura%20de%20Tela%202013-07-09%20%C3%A0s%2000.07.30.png

And the preliminary results are very encouraging:

Here are some pictures:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10237587/Artes_Web/Forum/Agisoft/Captura%20de%20Tela%202013-07-08%20%C3%A0s%2023.48.59.png

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10237587/Artes_Web/Forum/Agisoft/Captura%20de%20Tela%202013-07-08%20%C3%A0s%2023.48.49.png

Unfortunately the number of points is not sufficient to capture fine details of the skin, can at most 11,000 cloud points:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10237587/Artes_Web/Forum/Agisoft/Captura%20de%20Tela%202013-07-08%20%C3%A0s%2023.49.35.png

Whereas these shots are not using the projector, I wonder how we can capture more points without using noiseprojection.

There were some problems in the neck, under the chin, had to take the intense noise in Zbrush, I could not resist and did a quick render in Modo, no pretense, rs:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10237587/Artes_Web/Forum/Agisoft/Captura%20de%20Tela%202013-07-08%20%C3%A0s%2023.47.51.png

Cheers

Jean campos
Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: mala on July 09, 2013, 01:40:52 PM
Hi Jean,

Interesting results for such few cameras.

In regard to fine details of the skin, I think you will struggle to ever acheive the fine detail in the Ten24 picture (example you posted in the your previous post) using Photoscan alone.

I'm 99% sure that the fine detail in that image comes from using the texture(with some tweaks) to emboss those fine details into the mesh in ZBrush.

In terms of the number of points Photoscan is matching in your photos, you have a few things that are maybe not helping

- The subject appears to have foundation make up applied to his face(and some on the hat!) maybe you have done this to reduce reflections but it also gives a smooth even texture which makes it harder for Photoscan to find points in that area....and therefore less fine detail.
I would suggest using a polarising filter instead to reduce the reflections.

- The jumper/ sweatshirt has a very distinct pattern, in my experience this means that Photoscan will use up more of the points (you have set as the limit) to build that part of the subject.

Cheers,
Mala

Title: Re: Smart Shooter, Nikon D3200 and noiseprojection.
Post by: Magnus on July 13, 2013, 01:59:55 AM
Hello!

Thanks for the heads-up and information mala and Lee!

Jean, great to see your tests! I think your results are starting to look pretty good.
By zooming in (or moving closer) one can get good detail in the mesh but ofcourse there is the problem of depth of field and processing times if going Ultra High (coverage is even more important too).
I will see if I can put together some examples because when I've tried with different ratios one can actually see how the noise changes in the mesh.
We are aiming for a decent enough mesh (without too much noise so as to simplify cleanup) and then get the fine details from the textures (as mala pointed out about Ten24 pic).

Best, Magnus.