Agisoft Metashape
Agisoft Metashape => Face and Body Scanning => Topic started by: ruffy on July 13, 2014, 08:28:53 PM
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Just wanted to start a discussion about the business of 3D facial and body scanning.
I fear that this product may already be turning into a commodity.
I have been a professional photographer all my life.
Something like 78% of all photographers in Australia earn less than $36k per year.
The average wage is now $55k per year.
The top 3% of of these businesses earn between $1-2 million a year.
An enormous disparity.
The people who have great businesses charge a lot for their work.
Have you or someone you know ever owned a new car?
Have you ever heard anyone complain about what is probably the second most expensive item they will ever invest in?
The answer is NO.
People value what they pay more for.
As a professional portrait photographer, I can use 1 camera in 1 session and charge $2.5k for a single print (panoramic 60x24 inch canvas). Printing costs are $300.
Packages can be as high as $6,000 per client.
Time: 4 hours included photography, viewing session, post and printing.
Other photographers can charge $20k per package and do this consistently 4 times per month.
I am not there yet, but my photography business should be $1m plus per year soon.
http://fantasyportraits.com.au
I used to work in the film industry with a multiple camera array and was able to charge $25k per production day.
For an international assignment $100k was required.
My investment cost of 60x 10D's at $4.5k each ($250k plus) was returned within 12 months.
http://www.timesplice.com.au/3dfashiongallery/fashion360_2.html
Times have changed and there is rarely a budget for this type of work.
Hence, the desire to use the technology in another area, like 3D lenticular or facial and body scanning.
Great photographers of the past commanded fees of $100k + per photo session because they could.
They were market leaders.
3D scanning has this potential.
When I have great results, I intend to charge $3,000 per scan with a 3D print/figurine at the consumer level.
With good public relations, I need to be able to make $100k per month.
At $3k per 3d printed model, I need to do 33 per month or 1 per day.
This is a sustainable income for this technology for 1-2 persons.
It is not about the photography - it is about the business.
If you charge less, then it is not a sustainable business.
If it is seen as a gimmick, then no one will pay what it is worth.
Value what you are worth.
If you do not value your work, then no one else will.
Photo booths, events and low cost work will be a quick end to what could be a great business.
Is anyone else willing to talk about business models?
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well I am not too much in Business models.. but from what I could see around the www, the price for a 3D scan (full body) + a 3d Color print is around 1,000 USD..
I understand you need to make $100k per month... but still.. $3,000 is maybe a bit expensive...
It's hard to say as I have no clue how much someone from Australia is willing to spend in such 3D replica.. Here in EU, it looks more like a cool gadget, but as I think you may present things differently..
You have to know your potential clients.. businessman ? teens ? pregnant mothers..? Dog owners..? or do you plan something more serious like Co. Managers or Masonic guilds..?
I was thinking Teens and pregnant Mothers are the most interested in these kind of 3D miniatures yet..
Anyway, that would be nice to hear what people already in this business have to say.. Interesting topic, because apparently it's still a pretty secret business..
f/
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Hey FoodMan - thanks for the response.
Frozen moment camera array for film industry is different from 3D.
I used to get about 5 contacts per year from people who had gone out and purchased up to 150 cameras only to find out that they could not get the cameras to synchronise (very difficult with ambient light - after the 10D, Canon changed their shutter design and were compromised for synchronisation, compered to synch with flash which is very easy). I could not help them, but then would I?
I understand how people want to protect their I.P.
What operators think what people will pay and what people will actually pay are 2 different things.
I am sure there is no foundation for price.
If a simple 2D package of photos can be sold for $20k and by many photographers, is not something that is difficult to produce and rare worth so much more?
Again, it is more about marketing and sales than it is the craft.
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Ruffy
I'm not sure what I may be able to contribute, as I am now just venturing into this, but I am interested in the topic.
My interest in this technology is for digital sculpting and 3d printing. I've seen a number of 3d color prints, but the only detail that is provided is from the texture. The underlying meshes that I have seen usually need quite a bit of work and have little detail.
My business plan involves generating a very detailed, well topologized and optimized mesh (just head scans). Then I can print out a bust or incorporate it in a larger scene. Or just make a bobble head doll. Of course, I can also make a "Rick" doll for my daughter's Barbie ;D That'll make playing dolls a little more fun. I'm thinking the options for art are endless with the new printers and all the new materials. I like the idea of personalized art.
As for price... I need to see how long it takes and how much it cost. But, I really like this topic to discuss how much to charge and how people will be using this technology.
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Hey Pearse,
I too am at the early stages and want to do exactly what you want to do (plus a bit more :))
I now have a partner with a 3D printer / service provider and we are excited by the opportunities.
From a business perspective, you have to decide what your time is worth.
I will certainly be outsourcing masking and mesh touch up.
These tasks take a long time and to be frank, I am over sitting in front of a computer doing manual work that consumes a lot of time.
As a business person, you have to market your product and sell it.
If you do not do this, then you have no business - it is simply a hobby.
Do not undersell yourself.
Although, this can be difficult if you have people who have already set a bench mark price in your area.
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Just wanted to add …
If we are looking at providing a 'bust' service, then it may be worth asking around for people who produce the real 'bronze' piece of art at a relevant size.
I can't say for sure, but I will assume that it that it is going much more than euro1,000 (AU$1.9k).
Let me know if you find anything.
Digital changed photography and now everyone can be a photographer.
I would not like to be a struggling bronze artist as 3D printing could also kill their business.
Ruffy
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Well, I was surprised.
I contacted australianbrozesculptors.com.au today and a bust figure around 8 inches cube is just AU$1,500.
Of course they cannot do colour, but their clients have never asked for it.
Pays to research.
It now seems evident that euro1000 is a respectable figure.
Ruffy
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I was a little premature with my cost statement:)
The figures stated previously were for the 'manufacture' of the final product.
An artist has to be commissioned to create the sculpture.
This can be anywhere from between AU$0 (for someone wanting to make a name) to AU$2m for a world renowned artist.
So, there is really no ball park, however, my contact suggested that a 'commercial' sculpture would charge $100 per hour with a figure of no less than AU$2k.
This figure is now similar to my proposed amount of AU$3k per piece.
So, there is an opportunity to create AU$2m pieces of art.
Sadly though, the people who have benchmarked euro1000 have done themselves an injustice.
People will not value a low cost item which now has to be seen as a gimmick rather than art.
I wil be trying for AU$5k per piece with this new information.
I think a commercial aspect would be to offer this service to high end photographers with high end clients.
Not sure if that will work since most photographers and businesses will only pay 10% of what they can sell it for, that is, if it costs $100 photographers should be selling for $1000.
Perhaps more of a collaboration and dealing with say only the top 5 in the country would work with a 50:50 relationship.
Make it exclusive and you will win:)
Ruffy
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well there are co. that make it very cheap... and yes, I think it all started as a gimmick, and seeing where that goes, that's going to be hard to change... I already saw a few reports and docs on TV about that "new trend" , and none mentioned anything about art..
I recall one journalist was saying there is a new type of selfie...The 3D selfie, .. hehe
here a link to a cheap one..
http://www.3d-u.com/prices.html
and a better one, although a bit more expensive..
http://www.3d-u.com/prices.html
(Milos, a Pscan user works at that store)
http://iiid.me/article/iiid-full-body-capture
https://www.facebook.com/IIIDEvolution
and here claiming to start scanning 1000 people per day in Commercial shopping chains...
https://www.facebook.com/IIIDEvolution?sk=reviews
all in all, It's a scary business, because things can change sooo fast, almost overnight, so you never know what direction to go.. :P
f/
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I haven't had a chance to read all the replies so I may be repeating some people, But from my experience the business model will fail. As 3d scanning (not photogrammetry) but small inexpensive hand held scanners come on the market, like the kinect and asus, these models are getting better resolution with each release, and the software being produced need very limited post work. With that being said you will see tons of places doing scans in the sub $200 range. As for the 3d printing side of it, I have been involved in it since the beginning and can tell you with the costs dropping rapidly and the long print times will not help the situation. To give you an idea I linked you to a model I did for my dad for father's day I did the head with my nikion D5300 agisoft and the body with a $200 asus scanner as I find it the best of both worlds. I did some post processing in zbrush and printed it on my replicator 2 in about 4 hours at top resolution (layer height) it's a nice size of just under 100mm tall. Just my 2 cents, hope you take it into consideration before spending to much. I think in a year or so it will be very widespread and very reasonable.
https://sketchfab.com/models/d1effcaa7cd3449ca8fcb6404dec6da1/embed?autostart=1 (https://sketchfab.com/models/d1effcaa7cd3449ca8fcb6404dec6da1/embed?autostart=1)
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@Brian33433
well yes I think you're right... if you look at the few links I gave above, I don't think a 100 cameras Photogrammetry is the best answer for that kind of Statuette business.. simply too expensive compared to what a cheap scanner can do, thinking that you don't even need a high def scan like Pscan can do in good hands ... because the 3D printing process is still pretty low def (unless you print a 1/1 scale person.. ) I mean most would print a 10cm to 20 cm at the max...
Also have in mind that people would want a color print, and color printers are pretty slow and still expensive...
f/
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@ Brian,
Nice result with your Dad - well done.
I did a 3D lenticular of father before he passed away.
An award winning piece that reminds me of him, and is more compelling than any 2D print.
I suppose the only difference is that when you capture with multiple cameras as opposed to a scanner you have the texture as well which can then be printed and does not require paining.
I too have to agree that the business model may not work since too many people are out there doing cheap work.
@ Foodman
Thanks for the links.
In Australia, 30 years ago, shopping centres would pay a photographer to attract people with great photography.
You needed a professional experienced in a dark art called 'film' and a knowledge of posing to have a nice portrait taken. You could not do it yourself. It was a craft.
Pixie Photo were the market leaders in shopping centre mall photography providing sub standard, poorly posed work and were around for about 20 years.
In just 3 years they went from a nation wide company worth $85m/year to broke last year.
Even just 5-10 years ago, people would cue up to have their photo taken, now you would be lucky to get 3 a day and those 3 will not invest in very much at all.
So, this business model does not work today.
Shopping centre mall work would have to be cheap to get volume as it will only be seen as a gimmick and not an art form as it has no real history (full colour 3D bust).
Yes, it will work, but you would have to make your money quickly.
I too looked at doing shopping centre mall photography with Fantasy Portraits.
I could not make the figures work.
People still make money out of photography, but it is getting much harder.
Why would people pay for something they can do themselves?
For a business model to work, the product and service has to be something that the average person cannot do themselves.
We buy expensive cars because we cannot make them ourselves.
I can put together an automated 80 DSLR camera rig with lighting and grips for AU$60k.
A well operated photography business can earn this in a month - some can do it in a week.
There are 3 big differences between Pixie and a top photography studio:
1. The experience (treated like a movie star)
2. The sales (hand crafted and exclusive),
3. The quality of the work (no one will pay for garbage).
Photography was a craft and developed over a hundred plus years.
Few could afford it.
Now it is a commodity.
Sculptures have been around much longer.
This too, must/will become a commodity like photography did.
Only the super rich people who can afford a $m artist will have this service done because they can and they can say they were created by this artist.
The rest will have 3D scanning.
Perhaps the solution is not to compete, rather collaborate with great photographers as an add on service.
I will have to look into my crystal ball and see what happens:)
Ruffy
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@Ruffy,
Actually you can in fact do texture with the hand held scanner, the only reason I opted not to bother was the fact I was printing it on a 3d printer with only one color so it didn't pay to worry about texture at the time.
3D printing as a business model in these early years of it are very hard to make work. I was in Radio Shack today and they just started selling a 3D printer and I was telling the salesman I would hate to be him when the customers start coming in complaining about all there failed prints, as 3D prosumer printers are not yet an out of the box solution and take a lot of tweaking and learning. He replied he has had a 45% return factor in the first month of selling them.
Reminds me of the early years of home computers.
Brian
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hehe 45% return..? lol
well you're right, like the early times of pc...
I don't think these mini printers will do for very long... tech is changing so fast, soon we'll have full color mini printing machines that print anything in 10 min.. maybe not tomorrow, but it will come, that is sure, sooner or later. 8)
the fact is that people will get bored very fast with the very few mini plastic things they can make with it... so these mini printers are already dead me think... but it's a start, although it shows that it will never be a mass market anytime soon like they predicted, an I-phone is about how far the average dude can go... now we're talking about 3D apps, 3D printing... tough area... I could be wrong though.. :P
so just to say, time and tech will define or even re-define that kind of business..
what could work now is printing in detailed wax, and making a bronze bust or full statuettes.. that would maybe sell good, because do get a good bust of someone, you really have to find a really good artist ;D .... and a really good one is... well really expensive.. and veryyy long.. so in that sense, yes maybe there is a market, but you'd have to invest quiet some $$ at the start to make people know what you do..
f/
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@ Foodman,
Yep, its all about marketing.
I have seen many Youtube videos and the results look impressive, but no one is marketing really well.
These videos mainly show the features and not the benefits.
The benefit is creating a memory to be endured for a lifetime.
Speaking of which, are there any figures of longevity or colour fastness of the product?
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http://www.popsci.com/article/technology/uk-supermarket-lets-you-3-d-scan-and-print-yourself-store
or this..
http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140715-japanese-company-offers-3d-printed-doll-for-wedding-day-memories.html
or
http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140710-3d-print-a-life-size-replica-of-yourself-china-unveils-world-largest-3d-wax-printer.html
or
http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140630-hema-introduces-scan-lounge-to-print-you-or-your-kids-in-3d.html
or
http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140625-full-body-scanning-booths-open-in-asda-print-a-3d-selfie.html
and with cheap scan devices..
http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140702-itseez3d-app-structure-sensor-to-turn-your-ipad-into-ultra-realistic-3d-scanner.html
so I think it's going to be more like a gimmick.. hard to change after that..
f/
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Well if you see it like that, yes, it can look like a gimmick, but if you compare the quality of those scans and 3D prints with the good quality ones that some other people can do (myself included) they look cheap of course.
If you really want to have a nice replica of yourself with great quality and detail, then it will cost you more.
As in any other business, there are many quality levels.
The problem will come when they start selling cheap good quality scanners and full color printers that will allow anyone to make those high quality prints, but that is still a few years away I hope.
Leo
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Actually I just saw an interesting segment on the news a few nights ago. Staples teamed up with 3d systems to sell their printers and scanner in there stores and now there doing scans and full color prints in shop for $60. The funny part is they don't use their scanner, they use a scanner booth they made just for this which of causes uses photogrammetry and not there handheld scanner. The resolution is top notch. They are doing it in New York and California to start. So goes to show you, The prices will never get up there. As at the least you would need a 40 camera rig (upwards of $50K) and a full color 3d Printer about $40k.
Brian
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What a pity that it has already turned into a commodity:(
The big retail stores in the US used portrait photography to get people into the store.
These portrait studios operated at a loss.
Eventually, the loss was too great, the photography was poor and people could do it themselves and they shut them down.
I feel that this is what is happening here - a drawcard to get customers into the store.
No art, no professionalism and no experience.
It does undermine craftsman.
Soon you may have Brad Pitt doing to a booth at a supermarket for his facial scans for Benjamin Button2:)
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@Brian,
Where did you see that article about Staples? Can you share the link?
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well .. Lambo I am not seeing nor saying anything... I was just trying to provide links...
I agree most look like shit, but it will evolve.. maybe..
Now you're saying "If you really want to have a nice replica of yourself with great quality and detail, then it will cost you more." .... sure, but then we're talking about something else..
yes some people (very few) want a quality bust or figurine of themselves, but how many willing to invest several $$, that might be a very small niche.. in fact that niche always existed, and that's what Sculptors do since middle age... nothing new here, just a different technique and faster...
That's the way things work today... cheap and fast... I mean look around you, go in a supermarket where we all buy our stuff, and look around you.. 90% of what they have in a store is cheap, badly constructed and poorly designed..
Look at IKEA, 99% of their stores sell shit... Sure you can still buy super nice furniture, but how many people are concerned..?
I don't want to be a party pooper here, but the fact is that large companies like supermarkets, amusement parks, even cities maybe.... are going to use it, and soon it will be good...(at least good enough) and cheap..
f/
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@Brian,
Where did you see that article about Staples? Can you share the link?
http://www.3dsystems.com/press-releases/staples-partners-3d-systems-launch-store-3d-printing-experience-new-york-and-los
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Thats the story, the segment I saw where they showed everything was on tv. It was channel 11 news in NYC, not sure if they have it on there site.
B.
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Yes I saw that video about Staples and I really didnt like it :( because it will make it even more affordable for anyone to get a figurine of themselves.
On the other hand, you only get your face on a pre-made body and the resolution is not that great and the size of the model is 5.5 inches. So the ones many of us are making are still much better... for now.
The other bad news is that 3D Systems is supposed to release pretty soon a new 3D printer, the CubeJet that is basically a consumer level Z450 or Z650 printer that will print in full color sandstone. It is supposed to be under $5,000.
For what I could gather, it will have a smaller print area and maybe slightly less resolution than the bigger brothers but still full color and much cheaper :(
Leo
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Yes unfortunately the 3d printing world is moving at leaps and bounds. As with all new areas of development those of us who invest early usually lose our shirts on the high price equipment and make way for the next round to make all the money >:( But with that being said, I personally think the only way to be profitable in the figurine area is to be in a mall setting doing volume, but with that being said you would need a lot of printers set up as I can tell you the 90mm tall statue I did takes roughly 2 1/2 hours of printing time and thats single color. Truthfully at this stage, i'm not sure full color is really necessary to close the deal. Everyone who see's mine would give me $100 on the spot for one of them or there family members. That would be a viable market except I'm sure by the time I got up and running the big box stores would be undercutting me and in full color.
B.
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I think the CubeJet will have the same def precision like their bigger brothers... except only 6 x 8"... but apparently a better material flexible.. and under $5k... wow... I might even buy one for myself..
the 3D selfie shops are going to pop up in every mall... :)
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I think the CubeJet will have the same def precision like their bigger brothers... except only 6 x 8"... but apparently a better material flexible.. and under $5k... wow... I might even buy one for myself..
the 3D selfie shops are going to pop up in every mall... :)
I really hope they are not stupid enough to kill the market for their 30-70k full colour printers. CubeJet will probably use 3 (basic CMY, not full CMY) separate colours, instead of 4 (full CMYK) on the bigger brothers. If it will be used in this business, it will create a huge difference between random CubeJet+Kinect "3D photo shops" vs professional ones.
I think the quality has to be at a certain level for a person to "feel it" - feel the awkward feeling of holding a small replica of yourself in his hands.
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I think after 3DS launched the full color cubejet, the industrial grade printer series will move to higher resolution arena. ;D The currently full color printing has a lot of rooms for improvement and cannot produce detail figurines. Therefore the difference between low cost scanner and high end 3D photography is suppressed.
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There has to be a 'point of difference'.
If you start competing on price alone then you are doomed.
These bigger companies can afford to run at a loss to get people in the store and will always win on price.
Create a quality product that will separate you from the cheapies.
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well interesting enough... there is one commenter here :
http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/07/cubejet/
(scroll down the page) that says it has to be that way... simply because some of the patents 3DSystems owns are expiring in Q1 of this year..
So if they don't do it.. well all their competitors will do it in an eye blink... so yes, I really think it will be full color and a good precision, only a smaller build room...
I agree if it's true, it is sad to see a technology being so expensive, simply because one owned the patents...
well I have seen a projet 460 working... and was always wondering what the heck was so expensive about it... lol..
Time will tell very fast.. too fast maybe.. hehe :P and this is only the beginning :).. Exciting times
f/
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The 3Dsystems(Zcorp)650cost new approx 60.000 eur. but the "real price is just about 8-10.000 eur as parts. Yes they get a lot of profit.... a lot of tech is pricey because of patents.....
im think in 2-3 years after important patents get free we can see printers with 15x10x10 buld size in price of say 2-3.000 eur so much more will be aviable. Have info ( working prototypes seen)that HP, canon and few others are preparing for 2015 to release a lot of 3d printers.... so be prepared....
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Hi Foodman,
I think the patent talking about is the SLA 3d printing:
http://boingboing.net/2012/11/21/3ds-sues-innovative-new-3d-pri.html
Other than zprinter, there is another brand Cometruejet that works similar to it. Guess it is more cheaper. :D
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Hmm interesting, but seeing the UI of the 3D printing app and few other things im think that behind this project are people from Zcorp that leave the company after merging with 3D systems.....
interesting speed and quality, but their web is like from 90?s......
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Well, I think there is a lot of misinformation and questions about the Cubejet out in the web.
I have been looking around for a while now and I saw some tech specs about it once (I can not find it now) and they said that the build size is smaller and that the resolution was slightly worse than the bigger brothers.
As for the material, as far as I can tell, it is the same as the Projet 460, 660 or Zcorp Z450, Z650
the flexible material is the one on the bigger Projet 4500. There are a couple videos and links on the internet that mixes both and say that the Cubejet is making the flexible material but it seems to be only for the Projet 4500.
I REALLY HOPE I AM RIGHT :(
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The 3Dsystems(Zcorp)650cost new approx 60.000 eur. but the "real price is just about 8-10.000 eur as parts. Yes they get a lot of profit.... a lot of tech is pricey because of patents.....
im think in 2-3 years after important patents get free we can see printers with 15x10x10 buld size in price of say 2-3.000 eur so much more will be aviable. Have info ( working prototypes seen)that HP, canon and few others are preparing for 2015 to release a lot of 3d printers.... so be prepared....
hey Milos... you're right.. let's wait a bit to see how things go... :P
f/
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these suppose to be from the new CubeJet printer.. but who knows if it's true..
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these suppose to be from the new CubeJet printer.. but who knows if it's true..
I suppose they can be, the quality is horrible compared to the bigger brothers. I also have a full colour figurine sample from projet 4500, you can't even compare the quality to 660 etc.
EDIT: 660 is better
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so the 4500 is much better with results ? can PM me screen ?? can order sample print but im bit overwhelmed with other work....
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Hi,
We currently run Projet® 660pro , ProJet® 4500 as well as ProJet® 3500 HDMax.
I can confirm bot Projet® 660pro , ProJet® 4500 are have almots the same results in quality..
However used materials are different and their price too. I can say depends on purpose of using.
Next week, I will try to print the same object from two different printers and then upload some photos.
Also dear matey Wishgranter, you still keep it secret but thanks to Lord I sorted out the color issue long time ago...
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Well if that picture is indicative of the resolution on teh Cubejet, it definitely looks like it doesn't have even the quality of the ZCorp Z450 that I have. That would be a relief :)
Wishgranter or Exhale, do you guys know whats the difference in looks on a print between the Z450 and Z650? (Same as the Projet 460 and 660) I know the printing resolution is supposed to be the same but the quality of the textures is much better on the bigger ones right?
When I print, the models come out pretty nice but the textures never look as good as the ones I've seen from the bigger machines.
Leo
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Exhale, im a bit under NDA for the 3D printing and scanning, have signed when started to work here in Prague..... so cannot say about it in the "wild". BUT times are changing......
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...... BUT times are changing......
8) ;)
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Foodman, silence please :-D 8)
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lol can u even say what r u talking about?? :o
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I am glad that people are engaging in this topic.
I have learned much from it.
Thank you all.
Does anyone know what the 'big' players (xxArray, Infinite Realities, Ten24) are charging for full body scans ready for integration to a project?
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Hi,
We currently run Projet® 660pro , ProJet® 4500 as well as ProJet® 3500 HDMax.
I can confirm bot Projet® 660pro , ProJet® 4500 are have almots the same results in quality..
However used materials are different and their price too. I can say depends on purpose of using.
Next week, I will try to print the same object from two different printers and then upload some photos.
Also dear matey Wishgranter, you still keep it secret but thanks to Lord I sorted out the color issue long time ago...
So what you are saying, is that 4500 vs 660pro quality is about the same? I don't have the printers myself, but I have ordered 2 samples of human figurines (same model) from 3D Systems and the difference in colour quality is huge! Figurines printed with 660 are so much better...
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I am not surprised... because the Projet 4500 only prints in CMY... when the 660pro prints in CMYK... :P
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hehe... I ask myself a pretty important question... is the apron mandatory if you want to work in that business..? hehe ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POx6eWOr97I
f/
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cubejet is going to be powder based or plastic like 4500?
taking into account the general direction of this thread, i hope what i'm about to ask is not too offtopic. i own a projet 660 and i want to investigate on compatible consumables/infiltrants. has anyone used any with success (no problems, no clogs, no color issues)? is there a link or other info u can share? through pm if necessary? thanks!
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Voudas, I am about to test some that has pretty good reviews. I'll let you know when I do.
Leo
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And by the way, the Cubejet is Powder like the Projet 660.
Leo
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thanks Leo for both answers, i'll wait for your valuable feedback.
do u also know if its going to be cmy or cmyk? (even though apart from the lack of fine detail, the sample pic is very contrasty and indicates cmyk) ty
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I do not know that for sure unfortunately, but if I had to guess, I would say it will be CMY since the Zcorp Z450 and the Projet 460 are CMY and the Cubejet seems to be a smaller version of those.
Leo
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Its all good and interesting, but it seems to me that a new thread is called for here:)
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Yes you are right Ruffy, I am sorry for contaminating the thread :)
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Hello guys,
I just had to get back on this. I started using scanning in photography to create combined images that would otherwise require 20+ layers in photoshop and a high end artist.
3D printing took me by surprise, and fueled my business in the beginning. I was interested in realism and detail but these dreadfull prints showed none of it.
Sadly this dreadfull result now has all the attention and focus. The market is flooded with crappy printers and scanners, business models and schemes with the sole focus of financial gain.
I believe there is an opportunity for personalisation and experience unlike any other but I refuse to take part in any of these schemes.
I have a plan and a goal, but it will always have the Marki touch. Respect to all the guys I met that share this integrity and vision...
Stay tuned! And keep Agisofting!
Mark Florquin
P.S.: Check out Holodeck V1.0: http://youtu.be/M4rSOq6lhKc (http://youtu.be/M4rSOq6lhKc)
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Although I am a newest newbie and have nothing to advice, I thank you Mark for your post, because it explains all my theoretical confusions about imagining a successful small business with merely 3d shooting people. Needles mentioning the printing part.
Thanks for the courage to write so, it materializes in words those my thoughts I could not move from a intuition and not fully understanding to a comprehension.
Hello guys,
I just had to get back on this. I started using scanning in photography to create combined images that would otherwise require 20+ layers in photoshop and a high end artist.
3D printing took me by surprise, and fueled my business in the beginning. I was interested in realism and detail but these dreadfull prints showed none of it.
Sadly this dreadfull result now has all the attention and focus. The market is flooded with crappy printers and scanners, business models and schemes with the sole focus of financial gain.
I believe there is an opportunity for personalisation and experience unlike any other but I refuse to take part in any of these schemes.
I have a plan and a goal, but it will always have the Marki touch. Respect to all the guys I met that share this integrity and vision...
Stay tuned! And keep Agisofting!
Mark Florquin
P.S.: Check out Holodeck V1.0: http://youtu.be/M4rSOq6lhKc (http://youtu.be/M4rSOq6lhKc)
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This is a very interesting thread for me. It was started in 2014 and it has been stated, that technological advance of handheld scanners will render complex and expensive photogrammetry systems with many DSLR cameras obsolete.
Now 5 years later how do things look like? I am very interested in this as I am looking into getting into commercial 3D scanning to produce 3D printed figurines. I am considering what system should I get to start this kind of business. There are different systems available on the market right now. One can custom build a photogrammetry system (which is what I was looking into originally), or buy 'off the shelf' system like Twinstant or Artec Shapify or get a portable scanner like Artec Leo.
Of course every system has it's own strengths and weaknesses, however I would like to know where the market is going these days. Does it still make sense to build a big and complex photogrammetry rig with a lot of postprocessing involved or one could get faster, better results with one of the latest hand held scanners, in particular Artec Leo (big plus, it is mobile)?
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This is a very interesting thread for me. It was started in 2014 and it has been stated, that technological advance of handheld scanners will render complex and expensive photogrammetry systems with many DSLR cameras obsolete.
Now 5 years later how do things look like? I am very interested in this as I am looking into getting into commercial 3D scanning to produce 3D printed figurines. I am considering what system should I get to start this kind of business. There are different systems available on the market right now. One can custom build a photogrammetry system (which is what I was looking into originally), or buy 'off the shelf' system like Twinstant or Artec Shapify or get a portable scanner like Artec Leo.
Of course every system has it's own strengths and weaknesses, however I would like to know where the market is going these days. Does it still make sense to build a big and complex photogrammetry rig with a lot of postprocessing involved or one could get faster, better results with one of the latest hand held scanners, in particular Artec Leo (big plus, it is mobile)?
Hi Volteco.
the type of scanner you choose depends on what type of business you want to set up. If you aim at lowish quality, low price, mass market then a handheld might fit your needs. As long as you can actually complete the scan. It takes long minutes and if the subjects moves odds are that the scan has to be restarded from scratch.
Therefore you cannot scan dogs, kids and therefore family groups. Then the printing costs will probably increase the figurine price above the mass-market threshold anyway.
A photogrammetric scanner can scan any kind of subject, no market accessibility restrictions.
Another disadvantage of handhelds is the quality/resolution of the scan. Sometime ago I scanned a local popstar and his staff asked a textureless print. They explained me that they wanted to compare my scan with that produced by one competitor of mine (operating handheld or even ipad based scanner) and did not want to be deceived by the textures. Result: they admitted that you could recognize the guy in my print but you could not in the other one. I only have a raspberry based photogrammetric scanner, not even a DSLR...
In short, a photogrammetric scanner gives far better models and opens you interesting side businesses, such as producing models for VR/AR industry.
Pricewise the investment is higher, for a DSLR scanner, but definetly on par for a Raspberry scanner, compared to professional handhelds. Kinetcs / ipads and the likes are not professional, are toys. May fit your goals but remain toys.
The only real advantages of handhelds are portability and that they return a finished scan right away, while with photogrammetry you still need to process the photos.