Messages

16

Face and Body Scanning / Re: Building a 39 camera full body rig

« on: July 27, 2014, 10:51:30 AM »

Happy to admit that I may be wrong with people being protective:)
How should I contact Lee for consultancy?

17

Face and Body Scanning / Re: Building a 39 camera full body rig

« on: July 24, 2014, 12:42:46 PM »

Most people are pretty secretive of their I.P.
You may not find much help here.
Like you, I am having to experiment.
This is going we'll, but takes time.
I think I am close to great results in a few days time.
I have 60 old cameras.
If it works then I will invest in 80 new ones.
Good Luck:)
Ruffy

18

Face and Body Scanning / Re: The Business of 3D Scanning

« on: July 24, 2014, 12:39:28 PM »

There has to be a 'point of difference'.
If you start competing on price alone then you are doomed.
These bigger companies can afford to run at a loss to get people in the store and will always win on price.
Create a quality product that will separate you from the cheapies.

19

Face and Body Scanning / Re: The Business of 3D Scanning

« on: July 23, 2014, 02:10:17 AM »

What a pity that it has already turned into a commodity:(
The big retail stores in the US used portrait photography to get people into the store.
These portrait studios operated at a loss.
Eventually, the loss was too great, the photography was poor and people could do it themselves and they shut them down.
I feel that this is what is happening here - a drawcard to get customers into the store.
No art, no professionalism and no experience.
It does undermine craftsman.
Soon you may have Brad Pitt doing to a booth at a supermarket for his facial scans for Benjamin Button2:)

20

Face and Body Scanning / Re: The Business of 3D Scanning

« on: July 18, 2014, 01:04:03 AM »

@ Foodman,

Yep, its all about marketing.
I have seen many Youtube videos and the results look impressive, but no one is marketing really well.
These videos mainly show the features and not the benefits.
The benefit is creating a memory to be endured for a lifetime.

Speaking of which, are there any figures of longevity or colour fastness of the product?

21

Face and Body Scanning / Re: The Business of 3D Scanning

« on: July 17, 2014, 01:16:43 AM »

@ Brian,

Nice result with your Dad - well done.
I did a 3D lenticular of father before he passed away.
An award winning piece that reminds me of him, and is more compelling than any 2D print.
I suppose the only difference is that when you capture with multiple cameras as opposed to a scanner you have the texture as well which can then be printed and does not require paining.

I too have to agree that the business model may not work since too many people are out there doing cheap work.

@ Foodman
Thanks for the links.

In Australia, 30 years ago, shopping centres would pay a photographer to attract people with great photography.
You needed a professional experienced in a dark art called 'film' and a knowledge of posing to have a nice portrait taken. You could not do it yourself.  It was a craft.
Pixie Photo were the market leaders in shopping centre mall photography providing sub standard, poorly posed work and were around for about 20 years.
In just 3 years they went from a nation wide company worth $85m/year to broke last year.
Even just 5-10 years ago, people would cue up to have their photo taken, now you would be lucky to get 3 a day and those 3 will not invest in very much at all.
So, this business model does not work today.

Shopping centre mall work would have to be cheap to get volume as it will only be seen as a gimmick and not an art form as it has no real history (full colour 3D bust).
Yes, it will work, but you would have to make your money quickly.
I too looked at doing shopping centre mall photography with Fantasy Portraits.
I could not make the figures work.

People still make money out of photography, but it is getting much harder.

Why would people pay for something they can do themselves?
For a business model to work, the product and service has to be something that the average person cannot do themselves.
We buy expensive cars because we cannot make them ourselves.

I can put together an automated 80 DSLR camera rig with lighting and grips for AU$60k.
A well operated photography business can earn this in a month - some can do it in a week.

There are 3 big differences between Pixie and a top photography studio:
1. The experience (treated like a movie star)
2. The sales (hand crafted and exclusive),
3. The quality of the work (no one will pay for garbage).

Photography was a craft and developed over a hundred plus years.
Few could afford it.
Now it is a commodity.
Sculptures have been around much longer.
This too, must/will become a commodity like photography did.
Only the super rich people who can afford a $m artist will have this service done because they can and they can say they were created by this artist.
The rest will have 3D scanning.

Perhaps the solution is not to compete, rather collaborate with great photographers as an add on service.

I will have to look into my crystal ball and see what happens:)

Ruffy

22

Face and Body Scanning / Re: The Business of 3D Scanning

« on: July 15, 2014, 07:21:13 AM »

I was a little premature with my cost statement:)
The figures stated previously were for the 'manufacture' of the final product.

An artist has to be commissioned to create the sculpture.
This can be anywhere from between AU$0 (for someone wanting to make a name) to AU$2m for a world renowned artist.
So, there is really no ball park, however, my contact suggested that a 'commercial' sculpture would charge $100 per hour with a figure of no less than AU$2k.

This figure is now similar to my proposed amount of AU$3k per piece.

So, there is an opportunity to create AU$2m pieces of art.
Sadly though, the people who have benchmarked euro1000 have done themselves an injustice.
People will not value a low cost item which now has to be seen as a gimmick rather than art.
I wil be trying for AU$5k per piece with this new information.

I think a commercial aspect would be to offer this service to high end photographers with high end clients.
Not sure if that will work since most photographers and businesses will only pay 10% of what they can sell it for, that is, if it costs $100 photographers should be selling for $1000.
Perhaps more of a collaboration and dealing with say only the top 5 in the country would work with a 50:50 relationship.
Make it exclusive and you will win:)

Ruffy

23

Face and Body Scanning / Re: The Business of 3D Scanning

« on: July 15, 2014, 05:54:42 AM »

Well, I was surprised.
I contacted australianbrozesculptors.com.au today and a bust figure around 8 inches cube is just AU$1,500.
Of course they cannot do colour, but their clients have never asked for it.
Pays to research.
It now seems evident that euro1000 is a respectable figure.
Ruffy

24

Face and Body Scanning / Re: The Business of 3D Scanning

« on: July 14, 2014, 11:17:25 PM »

Just wanted to add …
If we are looking at providing a 'bust' service, then it may be worth asking around for people who produce the real 'bronze' piece of art at a relevant size.
I can't say for sure, but I will assume that it that it is going much more than euro1,000 (AU$1.9k).
Let me know if you find anything.

Digital changed photography and now everyone can be a photographer.
I would not like to be a struggling bronze artist as 3D printing could also kill their business.

Ruffy

25

Face and Body Scanning / Re: The Business of 3D Scanning

« on: July 14, 2014, 11:09:36 PM »

Hey Pearse,

I too am at the early stages and want to do exactly what you want to do (plus a bit more
I now have a partner with a 3D printer / service provider and we are excited by the opportunities.
From a business perspective, you have to decide what your time is worth.
I will certainly be outsourcing masking and mesh touch up.
These tasks take a long time and to be frank, I am over sitting in front of a computer doing manual work that consumes a lot of time.
As a business person, you have to market your product and sell it.
If you do not do this, then you have no business - it is simply a hobby.

Do not undersell yourself.
Although, this can be difficult if you have people who have already set a bench mark price in your area.

26

Face and Body Scanning / Re: The Business of 3D Scanning

« on: July 14, 2014, 03:11:16 PM »

Hey FoodMan - thanks for the response.
Frozen moment camera array for film industry is different from 3D.
I used to get about 5 contacts per year from people who had gone out and purchased up to 150 cameras only to find out that they could not get the cameras to synchronise (very difficult with ambient light - after the 10D, Canon changed their shutter design and were compromised for synchronisation, compered to synch with flash which is very easy).  I could not help them, but then would I?
I understand how people want to protect their I.P.

What operators think what people will pay and what people will actually pay are 2 different things.
I am sure there is no foundation for price.
If a simple 2D package of photos can be sold for $20k and by many photographers, is not something that is difficult to produce and rare worth so much more?

Again, it is more about marketing and sales than it is the craft.

27

Face and Body Scanning / The Business of 3D Scanning

« on: July 13, 2014, 08:28:53 PM »

Just wanted to start a discussion about the business of 3D facial and body scanning.
I fear that this product may already be turning into a commodity.

I have been a professional photographer all my life.
Something like 78% of all photographers in Australia earn less than $36k per year.
The average wage is now $55k per year.
The top 3% of of these businesses earn between $1-2 million a year.
An enormous disparity.
The people who have great businesses charge a lot for their work.

Have you or someone you know ever owned a new car?
Have you ever heard anyone complain about what is probably the second most expensive item they will ever invest in?
The answer is NO.
People value what they pay more for.

As a professional portrait photographer, I can use 1 camera in 1 session and charge $2.5k for a single print (panoramic 60x24 inch canvas). Printing costs are $300.
Packages can be as high as $6,000 per client.
Time: 4 hours included photography, viewing session, post and printing.
Other photographers can charge $20k per package and do this consistently 4 times per month.
I am not there yet, but my photography business should be $1m plus per year soon.
http://fantasyportraits.com.au

I used to work in the film industry with a multiple camera array and was able to charge $25k per production day.
For an international assignment $100k was required.
My investment cost of 60x 10D's at $4.5k each ($250k plus) was returned within 12 months.
http://www.timesplice.com.au/3dfashiongallery/fashion360_2.html
Times have changed and there is rarely a budget for this type of work.
Hence, the desire to use the technology in another area, like 3D lenticular or facial and body scanning.

Great photographers of the past commanded fees of $100k + per photo session because they could.
They were market leaders.
3D scanning has this potential.

When I have great results, I intend to charge $3,000 per scan with a 3D print/figurine at the consumer level.
With good public relations, I need to be able to make $100k per month.
At $3k per 3d printed model, I need to do 33 per month or 1 per day.
This is a sustainable income for this technology for 1-2 persons.

It is not about the photography - it is about the business.

If you charge less, then it is not a sustainable business.
If it is seen as a gimmick, then no one will pay what it is worth.
Value what you are worth.
If you do not value your work, then no one else will.

Photo booths, events and low cost work will be a quick end to what could be a great business.

Is anyone else willing to talk about business models?

28

Face and Body Scanning / Hi from Australia - first 60 camera result

« on: July 13, 2014, 08:56:36 AM »

Hi Everyone,

Greetings from Australia.

I would like to be the first person to offer a body and facial scanning service in Australia:)

History:
Multiple camera array owner operator for the film and tv industry since 1999 using film!
First to go digital in 2003 with Canon 10D.
Still using 60 of them!

Present:
I have done my very first test with 59 cameras (1 lens went down:() in a spare room.
Limited space and ceiling height.
Camera to subject = 2.1 meters.
12 stands of 5 cameras.
All vertical orientation.
F=24mm @ f11
Camera quality between 1.05 to 1.3
No camera calibration.
10D gate/aperture = 22.3x14.9 which means a 'standard lens' is = 25.7mm

https://sketchfab.com/models/f2c3004a752443f99e1d6268e14840a7

Far from perfect, but it is a start.

Critical test as I am using a peak hat and glasses.
Main concern is the 'flattening' of the face/nose area as well as general distortions.

OK all you gurus and experts out there - how do I improve on this?

Any help is appreciated.

Ruffy