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Messages - Steve003

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151
General / Re: Automatic mask in PhotoShop
« on: June 24, 2019, 09:55:10 PM »
Hi David,
Is there not going to be a catch22 situation, unable to use the model to chop away accurately at the baseboard where the model touches it, due to a snowdrift effect going on, because the photos needed masking prior to use to deter Agisoft from creating a poor definition at that object/baseboard junction ?

in other words or maybe saying it just as badly, to get a model  with well defined object/baseboard junction so as to edit mesh away and create the masks, one needs well masked photos and to use agisoft to mask all the photos in one fell swoop with this method we need the model already created from well masked photos.


I have several chunks, each one where the object was repositioned on the gridded table beyond which is a concrete floor and buildings, flor and buildings which appear occasionally in some of the shots, gridded table in all.

I am wondering how I remove all those backgrounds as fast as possible.

If I generate model first, surely the existence of the backgrounds will cause inaccuracies, poor edges where it touches grid etc, but to do as your method and delete background away from model  which I also saw on youtube and liked the idea of, I have to create an accurate model, so catch22.

Steve



152
General / photo masking tools none work where is tolerance options ?
« on: June 24, 2019, 09:29:34 PM »
Hi,

I am having terrible experience trying to mask an image, intelligent scissors get sidetracked by lines on my grid table. it hugged the object then when it came to a grid box line it lost the edge trace and went round my inch box on the grid, then eventually I ended up with one straight red dashed line after having gone a few inches.
tried paintbrush but got lots of peculiar bits.
tried magic wand but not any better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-N8zD6svvY  he has standard prog and uses tolerance values in magic wand options but I have Photoscan 1.4.5 and those options are missing.

I wish to follow the apply masks to tie points method, can I use photoshop instead to mask the image or two required and how do I bring this in and use it in the tie points process ? I could have masked 20 in the time it took to not even manage to mask using the agisoft tools.

Steve

153
General / Intelligent scissors are not Intelligent
« on: June 24, 2019, 08:36:17 PM »
Hi,
I am following the pdf on use of tie points so as to mask all photos when having masked one or two using as it suggests intelligent scissors.

There are no videos on you tube of intelligent scissors in use.
I search in the program's help on intelligent scissors but it finds nothing.

I use the tool but it makes straight lines around my curved edge, I expect it to snap to the edge, in an intelligent way.
I go Ctrl  A but have a selection still not following the curved edge.

What is supposed to happen as all they give me is straight line cuts.

Steve

154
General / Re: can I have both 1.2.6 and 1.4.5 installed to use both ?
« on: June 24, 2019, 05:41:22 PM »
Hi,
image set is that I wetransfered on 4 June, email received from you today saying you will take a look now.

so if I cut and paste the install directory from C drive to another location on C drive I can run 1.2.6 from there and the install of 1.4.5 will go to where that used to be.
Make a shortcut to the altered C drive location to run 1.2.6

something like C:\Photoscan 1.2.6 would suffice. or would it have to be within the Program Files folder as opposed to Program Files (x86) folder ?

Steve

155
Hi Alexey,
 I have already done that as per your request, and sent email describing what happened in the three versions.
Then with no feedback done it again on 4 June 2019.
 I have sent another message since via yet another support ticket 4 days ago. Both original tickets were closed without me hearing anything.

I do wish to go with one program, ideally 1.4.5 so as to use ''apply masks to tie points'' as metashape wont run.
and would love to have metashape working but when it did work it made a complete mess of my exhaust stack.

I sent the photos over with wetransfer 4 June 2019 and they were downloaded by agisoft support but heard nothing since.

Steve

156
General / can I have both 1.2.6 and 1.4.5 installed to use both ?
« on: June 24, 2019, 02:50:23 PM »
Hi,
my exhaust stack was far better in 1.2.6 but I need access to the suggested masking method 'apply masks to tie points' available in 1.4.5

Can I have both versions installed on my PC and use whichever suits me for what I am doing ?

Does installing 1.4.5 remove 1.2.6 ?

would that happen if I installed to D drive ?

Unless I hear back on why 1.4.5 gave a poor result and metashape a complete mess on the same set of photos I need to still use 1.2.6

would projects in 1.4.5 be backwards compatible, i.e. after using the 'apply masks to tie points' in 1.4.5 could I process them in 1.2.6 ?

Steve

157
Hi,
1.2.6
Having run workflow align chunks camera mode, then click on show aligned chunks icon, there is no tool for rotate object, its greyed out.
in the video here at 2m 20sec her rotate object is not greyed out yet she has turned on show aligned chunks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYE0KOa5oGk

is this something that is only allowed in Pro ?

Steve

158
General / localised decimation option would be FANTASTIC ?
« on: June 24, 2019, 02:28:21 PM »
Hi,
 if one types in 200,000 for mesh decimation, that could be good for an egg cup but bad for a car.
we are saying its got too many faces for what is needed for accuracy, but I have been using a value seen on the internet of 200,000 which I am now thinking is that making my model a bit crude if its 50cm long, and very crude if its a car. If its very ornate is that bad, if its very simple with little detail is that still too much ?
should it not simply be we take 1/10 of the current declared face count and enter that ?

Are we left to decide something that the program would be better at and know best value on given the complexity of the surface ?

If I use 400,000 as I have to see difference on a 38000000 mesh and I am trimming away the base grid I find some pink triangles bite into the model so in fact I need more to avoid that.

advice please on best approach.

Steve

159
General / How does one draw straight line selections ?
« on: June 24, 2019, 02:19:50 PM »
Hi,
 I have a lot of straight edges to trim points and mesh from, I try to use shift and click with the lasso tool to get a straight line but nothing happens.
Obviously the circle tool isnt of use, but a variant on the lasso with straight lines I truly expected in a prog of this calibre.
I cannot draw straight lines with the lasso though I am very good compared to other average mouse users.
Just where is this basic tool we need ?

I am with Standard but hoped for something  more than plastic scissors !

I am beyond teething stage and nappies.

Struggling here with lack of basics such as scale, merge flags and now straight line selection for straight edges.

Steve

160
Hi,
Quote
Usually alignment of the cameras in the single chunk gives better accuracy and quality of the results, rather then alignment of the multiple chunks.
You are saying try to avoid multiple chunks, mask out all the backgrounds, and put all photos into one chunk, Agisoft works better.
This will also avoid the need to use markers, which are denied us, to bring together model from two chunks.

I find that if I have an object, as I have, of a semicircle of metal resting on its edge on a gridded table, at the point of contact, when mesh made, I get a 'snowdrift', I see and know its a right angle, but photos down at it dont tell agisoft that, if I then were to photo that junction by moving along it like driving along near to a curving wall, I suppose those photos help avoid the 'snowdrift' mesh.

If I mask the table out right up to the object that might help avoid the 'snowdrift' parts of the mesh.

When one has 90 photos of an object with it being turned upside down, rested on its edge etc so as to get good shots of all parts of it, to avoid the snowdrift effect,  I hope the suggested new tool in photoscan 1.4. onwards will save me time. I have bought metashape which doesnt run and run 1.4.6 but have now installed 1.2.6 as it performs better with photos I have, until you and the team tell me what is happening to stop the later versions giving as good a result I cant use the masks to tie points command.


Can I have both 1.2.6 and 1.4.6 installed and running at same time ?

Steve

161
why is it necessary to end up with mesh count 38,000,000 to then have to decimate it to 200,000 ?
It takes time to create 38million faces then we are told to decimate it.
I find the whole model is sluggish until decimation is done.

this time I select 400,000 not 200,000 incase 200,000 was too simple.

if 200,000 is ok  why are we wasting time on 38,000,000 ?

Steve

162
Hi,
to try and move a model around until it matches perfectly with another visually would be horrendous to do.
There are no nudge commands, I struggle rotating the model with the ball.
In CAD you need to bring two items together at one know point, then use that as origin to then rotate about soyou can swing the second object in, though you need plan view, right view, front view windows to gradually get the two aligned, this would be exceptionally difficult, enough to cause a grown man to cry. to have no identifiable points to relate to just textures and no orthographic windows, sorry that isnt possible.

It simply needs a basic tool, click points 1 2 and 3 on first and point 1 2 and 3 on second, say bring together, done.

a basic tool for a basic need., we do have to photograph bottoms of objects.

to be expected to try and use rotate and match two objects together when one is praising agisoft for its accuracy, to throw away that accuracy for the sake of this basic tool for the basic prog, I cant accept that, I was so enjoying Agisoft standard when it did work, and to have to try and bring by models together without a standard CAD world orient on 3 point command as rhino would call it, I am truly gutted.

also can we not have a scale ?

I just dont need all the advanced stuff we pay for in pro, just for that marker tool, this is a basic tool for simple aligning two models.

I am not alone in asking this.

Just dont know now how to progress, maybe export each bit of my object to another free mesh prog and use that prog to align them ?

Steve

163
Hi,
I had to turn the object upside down to photo its base, and such will be something many other users will need to do.
This is just basic workflow for those requiring the basic simple program, objects do have bottoms !
This does not require Pro at 3500 price versus 179, a price that is to pay for its  GIS geomapping and other advanced stuff which I and others have no need of whatsoever.
I come to add markers as per the video on youtube bringing together a flint . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYE0KOa5oGk

I simply need for basic work markers to tie the two halves of the flint together, not interested at all in georeferincing or other such advanced things, but just the basic task of telling agisoft how to bring two models together ignoring the baseboard that is obviously otherwise going to confuse the hell out of the program as it has moved relative to the object when object turned upside down.
I have deleted it out in mesh of each chunk keeping in a portion for scale.
I also see scale only exists in pro, again thats a basic need to give a size to the model, must we pay 3500 v 179 just to have a size for it ? Surely standard use should see a size being possible ?

There are no markers as such anymore in the standard edition. This basic tool has been removed. Other users have also posted on this loss, they used to have access to markers so as to help bring two meshes together, now removed.

https://www.agisoft.com/forum/index.php?topic=2524.0


Standard edition as such cannot do a standard job anymore.

As others have also said they dont need all the advanced extras and a price tag of 3500 to pay for them.

It should be though that a basic tool to assist bringing two models together for what is a standard requirement exists in the basic program.

What other method then is there to perform this standard requirement ? I have bought Agisoft to do this, and after 5 days intensive photography with 5000 photos  I have lots of objects I have photographed where I have had to turn them upside down. Now the marker tool is no longer there.

Its basic model making from objects on the floor or a gridded table. not for profit, I am not a business, its a hobby. I dont have 350 let alone 3500.

Pro has now the markers that used to exist in standard, as posters say. 3500 versus 179  I cannot find that money just to assist bring two models together making Agisoft ignore the baseboard. A standard function which should be in standard edition. merge chunks by points sees it use baseboard and I get a mess.

I am gutted. just dont know what to do now. 179 spent and stuck, basic wont do basic.. and only the old version will work on perfectly ok photos the newer versions fail on.

Steve

164
Hi,
What is the correct procedure when an object needs turning upside down ?

I photographed around the object with it the right way up.
I turned it upside down to photo it again showing its underside.
I have put the photos with table and floor (unmasked) into the program , I get two objects, I also see the table and floor, I can delete the unwanted table and floor out in the mesh or point cloud.

Does one create a project per set of photos or a chunk per set of photos ?

I took the photos of the underside in chunk1 and made a chunk2 with them, then redid align photos on chunk 1, and got a single object. I then selected chunk 2 highlighted it and ran align photos but still see point cloud of the object upright, how do I get to see the object for chunk 2, I click on chunk 1 or chunk 2 but the object in 3D view remains same.

I expected it to show the object from chunk2 pics if chunk2 was clicked on.

If I then merge chunks does the program bring the object together adding the underside mesh to the rest of it or do I end up with 2x the mesh I had before ?

I fear that if I merge chunks, and Agisoft matches the table top and floor, I will end up with two objects with a common floor again.

I need to have Agisoft make the two models, then I delete the points for the floor from each, then bring the two models together. I havent the time to go masking lots of photos, I have 5000 photos of a whole load of objects and its far quicker to delete the points !

How is this bringing of two models together done after I have deleted out the unwanted surroundings ?

Steve

165
Hi,
Can photoscan cope with background textures unwanted in the final 3D object, such as vegetation or gravel etc ?
I photographed a vintage vehicle open beam chassis after clearing away plants that had grown around it but I only flattened them. Also photographed items placed on someones tarmac driveway, others on a concrete floor, another in a museum, another on bare soil.  To have to edit white in up to the edge of the object in every photo, of which there are hundreds, in fact a few thousand, will take forever. Can photoscan deal with plants etc or the fact that they move whilst the object is static, will that cause failure or inaccuracy ? When the item gets turned on its side or upside down to photo its underside, how does photoscan cope with the changes ? What about the items in the museum on the museum floor or on the walls or structure in the ceiling ?
Should all this be edited out as the mask method before the photos are put into a new photoscan project ? many hundreds of photos, thousands in fact to do if that is required.
Its not always possible to be in a nice studio with the object on a white background with flash umbrellas !
Can I not remove the resulting unwanted areas after the point cloud is made in the first stage.
Worried that Agisoft will find this extra distracting 'material' a problem and fail in processing.

If it has to be masked out, must it be accurate pixel perfect right up to the edge or will a rough trim leaving a bit showing around the object which would be far quicker to do, be enough ?
Steve

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