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Author Topic: Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12  (Read 30032 times)

ugurdemirezen

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Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12
« on: August 22, 2024, 03:08:03 AM »
Hi everyone,

I hope everyone's week going great.

I am new in the photogrammetry so I have a few questions.

I am trying to create a model of a construction above and below water.

There isn't anything wrong with the above-water side. The program works great.

But when I tried to create a model under water the structure I modeled looks crooked, while in reality it should be straight.

Here is the model: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XhS7Z-Yz_a2_Z3EUtG7nJfGuvvcCX88p/view?usp=sharing

Should I use some filter or I have to modify the camera setting? I am using GoPro Hero 12 as I mentioned on the caption.

Any information will be great for me.

Thanks!

CheeseAndJamSandwich

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Re: Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2024, 04:39:36 PM »
What GoPro settings are you using?
And how are you scanning the site?

I use 2x GoPro 7s mounted on a 3m water pipe (making it 2x faster to scan the site)...  Add more cameras for more faster!
The GoPros are pointing down at the reef, or 'normal' to the slope.  I'm swimming maintaining a 4-5m distance to the reef/slope.  And swimming at cruising speed, non-stop.
They're set on 2 second timelapse photos, in Wide.  This give extra overlap going forward, as GoPros can't do 3 second timelapse intervals, sadly.

My scans come out amazingly flat, with only the very long scans showing a banana. Curving upwards.

Are you processing the images before adding them?  They need to be untouched.

I gather the trick to solving banana scans is to do a pass or two with the camera oblique, set at say 20 degrees, instead of 90 degrees/normal to the reef/slope... Also some diagonal passes can work apparently.

And are the GoPros in original GoPro dive housings?
Grabbing frames from a video shot with one of its SuperView settings would probably give terrible results.   Stick with timelapse photos in 'Wide'.
My 'little' scan of our dive site, 'Manta Point'.  Mantas & divers photoshopped in for scale!
https://postimg.cc/K1sXypzs
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ugurdemirezen

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Re: Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2024, 12:27:40 AM »
What GoPro settings are you using?
And how are you scanning the site?

I use 2x GoPro 7s mounted on a 3m water pipe (making it 2x faster to scan the site)...  Add more cameras for more faster!
The GoPros are pointing down at the reef, or 'normal' to the slope.  I'm swimming maintaining a 4-5m distance to the reef/slope.  And swimming at cruising speed, non-stop.
They're set on 2 second timelapse photos, in Wide.  This give extra overlap going forward, as GoPros can't do 3 second timelapse intervals, sadly.

My scans come out amazingly flat, with only the very long scans showing a banana. Curving upwards.

Are you processing the images before adding them?  They need to be untouched.

I gather the trick to solving banana scans is to do a pass or two with the camera oblique, set at say 20 degrees, instead of 90 degrees/normal to the reef/slope... Also some diagonal passes can work apparently.

And are the GoPros in original GoPro dive housings?
Grabbing frames from a video shot with one of its SuperView settings would probably give terrible results.   Stick with timelapse photos in 'Wide'.


Thanks a lot for your kind answers.

1- I was capturing a video with wide settings and Hypersmooth "on". I made a research and it came out that when Hypersmooth is "on" It plays with the pixels and it is bad for photogrammetry.

2- I am scanning the site while I am swimming with same speed but just one angle. Maybe if I record the same site with two different angles it would give better results.

3- Thanks! But in that time I can not afford second camera probably. I will get it as soon as I can afford!

4- I am not pre-processing the photos.

5- Yes I am using original housing.

I will try the things you mentioned asap.

Also do you have any calibration while using the Agisoft Metashape? Like focal length and pixel size?

Thanks,
Best regards

CheeseAndJamSandwich

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Re: Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2024, 10:52:27 AM »
Shooting video is likely screwing up you scans.
Reading the manual and help pages specifically say that you must not crop any photos... So hypersmooth will screw it all up.

So just shoot on timelapse photo, wide, 2 seconds, and you'll get some great results right away*, without needing to calibrate anything.
* Unless the GoPro 12 is different from the 7 in an annoying way.  Please let me know!

It probably is always worth adding an oblique, crossing, or diagonal paths to eliminate the models bending like a banana, it can only help, and is so easy to do.

Shooting with 1 camera is always ok, but 2 or 3, or 4, on a pole/pipe just makes everything a lot faster to scan underwater, where we only have that 1 hour to get busy...  If you have a mate with another gopro, borrow it and fashion a pole out of pipe and get scanning faster! lol.

Top tip:  Data wrangling is key when you land up with so many photos, and possibly from so many scans...  So it's good to point the camera towards the sky as you start and as you stop the scanning passes...  Then you'll very easily be able to spot where the good data starts and stops...  All the scan photos will all just look the same. It'll all just be reef, coral...!!!  I'd often get home with 3-6,000 photos!  And name/date each folder! ISO date format for the win!
My 'little' scan of our dive site, 'Manta Point'.  Mantas & divers photoshopped in for scale!
https://postimg.cc/K1sXypzs
Sketchfab Models:
https://sketchfab.com/cheeseandjamsandwich/models

SimonBrown

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Re: Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2024, 11:24:40 AM »
GoPro can deliver a result:

https://accupixel.co.uk/2021/10/28/cost-effective-results/

https://accupixel.co.uk/2022/05/13/scripting-the-value/

But they would not be our first choice of action cameras.

If nothing else, make sure stabilisation is turned off:

https://accupixel.co.uk/2022/03/07/lens-calibration-and-image-stabilisation-cause-and-effect/

And this might help:
https://accupixel.co.uk/2022/04/06/when-alignment-fails-part-ii/

Drop the idea video is a good source. Only use it when stills are not available.

Avoid thinking more cameras = more coverage. More cameras can add coverage, but its not where their real advantage is:

https://accupixel.co.uk/zoom-meetings/webinar-the-advantages-of-working-with-stereo-cameras/

Finally, dont go down the route of thinking camera calibration will fix your alignment:

https://accupixel.co.uk/2023/09/06/course-update-manual-camera-calibration/
Agisoft endorsed online Metashape training - see: https://accupixel.co.uk/metashape-training-courses

CheeseAndJamSandwich

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Re: Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2024, 12:05:28 PM »
Avoid thinking more cameras = more coverage. More cameras can add coverage, but its not where their real advantage is:

https://accupixel.co.uk/zoom-meetings/webinar-the-advantages-of-working-with-stereo-cameras/

How would a stereo pair of GoPros work?  Bearing in mind that there's no way to synchronise both cameras... 
I just land up with 2 tracks of cameras, slightly staggered, but they work great!

And wrt coverage, I've had fantastic results by adding more cameras, to increase coverage!
With 2x gopros on a 3m pole, 'flying' 4m above the bottom/slope/reef...
The data down the middle of the track, between the 2 cameras is absolutely rock solid.
And, as you know, the hardest thing underwater, is swimming in a straight line!
Then add to that swimming in a straight line that is parallel to the previous run, as you're 'mowing the lawn'!!!  And at the correct distance.
All the issues I've got with my mesh are from where i've deviated off the straight line a little bit, leaving a slither of low/no overlap, leaving a soft, blurred area of the reef.
See if you can spot the areas on my little map of Manta Point: https://postimg.cc/K1sXypzs

I once had 4x gopros on a 3m pole, so a 1m pitch, and then swam 3m above the bottom, which gave a wonderfully higher quality, more detailed scan, relative to my normal 'site scanning' method.  I get really solid data down the middle, as there's 4 perfectly parallel camera tracks!

And again, adding coverage by adding coverage is key if you have any decent amount of ground to cover, as we've only got that one hour dive!

1 camera is great.
2 cameras is 2x faster, solid data down the middle of them.
3 cameras is 3x faster, solid data down the mddle of them.
4 cameras is 4x faster.....
Etc. etc. etc...
And you can add cameras to swim less, or, to increase quality, by reducing the 'altitude'.  Adjusting the pitch between the cameras to suit.
I can happily swim with a 4m pipe with 3-4 gopros on it.  Longer than that might be pushing it a bit (excuse the pun!)

And if you are going to be mounting multiple cameras on plastic water pipe, like i have been, you have to manage the flapping, resonance of the pipe as it moves through the water, when you're swimming at cruising speed...
We can manage this as they do with factory chimneys, by employing 'Helical Strakes', that you'll see on almost every chimney that is slender and tall... These interrupt the flow of the wind around the cylindrical chimney, making it messy and random, and not building up on one side and then the other as the chimney flexes, which could find the resonant frequency of chimney... If they didn't do this, the chimneys would snap and fall over as soon as the first wind blew at the right strength!
So we can make helical strakes by just getting some thin rope, wrapping it around the pipe, and jubilee clip it at each end.  Have the twist to be 1 twist per 300mm say...  To add more strakes if it still flaps too much, then have 2 lengths of rope, as 2-start strakes...  These do unfortunately add drag, which make it more difficult to push thought the water, but, they improve the sharpness of the photos captures, as the cameras will not be moving as much... And underwater, sharpness is poor to start with!
My 'little' scan of our dive site, 'Manta Point'.  Mantas & divers photoshopped in for scale!
https://postimg.cc/K1sXypzs
Sketchfab Models:
https://sketchfab.com/cheeseandjamsandwich/models

SimonBrown

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Re: Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2024, 10:03:22 AM »
Quote
How would a stereo pair of GoPros work?  Bearing in mind that there's no way to synchronise both cameras...

This is one reason, among others, why AccuPixel would not recommend using GoPro action cameras.

Quote
And wrt coverage, I've had fantastic results by adding more cameras, to increase coverage!
Adding GCPs into UW datasets is typically expensive. Using diver derived measurements is recognised as a great way to induce errors.

Achieving accurate underwater constraints can be done, but the costs and time can be prohibitive....whereas...

Synchronised cameras produce inherent scaling and this delivers a scaled model....and scaled models are far more valuable than data that merely represents the shape. Plus the efficiency of gathering reliable, scalable data jumps up - no need for the diver to measure anything, or even deploy a scale bar.

So whilst it may seem using more cameras is improving efficiency, in reality it's just more photos. Data created - without additional constraints or geo location - is of very limited value apart from being able to look at a model, spin it round and get an overall orientation of a site.

This paper explains more on why geo location and constraints add value: https://www.mdpi.com/2077-1312/12/2/280

There is a second paper coming out that discusses how unconstrained 3D data can be used to add value, but only when its supported with a really robust and accurate underlying set of scaled data.

Quote
And underwater, sharpness is poor to start with!

Errr...No, it's not.
Sharpness is and should be inherent for every UW image if the correct method and equipment is used. If you are seeing blurred, out of focus or less than sharp images then the odds of producing a robust model are compromised I'm afraid.

Agisoft endorsed online Metashape training - see: https://accupixel.co.uk/metashape-training-courses

CheeseAndJamSandwich

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Re: Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2024, 06:06:29 AM »
Quote
How would a stereo pair of GoPros work?  Bearing in mind that there's no way to synchronise both cameras...

This is one reason, among others, why AccuPixel would not recommend using GoPro action cameras.
Sadly, most conservation projects simply do not have the funds to purchase a dSLR/Mirrorless camera, lens, it's housing, port, 2x strobes, plus arms, etc...  Let alone 2 setups!  OK, they might get lucky and have a volunteer or visiting diver that does happen to have these camera setups, but this is unfortunately rare.  So we're forced to make do with what we've got...  And GoPros happened to be very, very common, possessed by many divers, many volunteers.  I personally am completely skint, but own 2x old GoPro 7s, and can borrow a third.  And yes, back to my point, borrowing that 3rd camera speeds up my scanning, as i can scan 50% more reef than i can with just 2.  For my large area dive site scans, GoPros are very much good enough!  But for my Coral Restoration Site scans, documenting coral frame growth, sure, i'd love to have a big rig with 2 strobes!  But it would make the scanning a lot, lot slower.
In the world of marine conservation, we simply have to make do with what we've got...  And yes, you offer the service to do the job a lot, lot more accurately, but most projects can't afford that.  Or they might not require the accuracy that your service gives.  Plus, GoPros are very quick, simple and easy to use!  And makes it possible to tech students to do the camera prep & scanning.

Obviously, we're very happy to accept donations of multiple $10,000 camera rigs!!!  ;D :P

Quote
Quote
And wrt coverage, I've had fantastic results by adding more cameras, to increase coverage!
Adding GCPs into UW datasets is typically expensive. Using diver derived measurements is recognised as a great way to induce errors.

Achieving accurate underwater constraints can be done, but the costs and time can be prohibitive....whereas...

Synchronised cameras produce inherent scaling and this delivers a scaled model....and scaled models are far more valuable than data that merely represents the shape. Plus the efficiency of gathering reliable, scalable data jumps up - no need for the diver to measure anything, or even deploy a scale bar.

So whilst it may seem using more cameras is improving efficiency, in reality it's just more photos. Data created - without additional constraints or geo location - is of very limited value apart from being able to look at a model, spin it round and get an overall orientation of a site.

This paper explains more on why geo location and constraints add value: https://www.mdpi.com/2077-1312/12/2/280

There is a second paper coming out that discusses how unconstrained 3D data can be used to add value, but only when its supported with a really robust and accurate underlying set of scaled data.
This is undeniably fascinating, and its amazing the results that its produced.
I can only dream of having the funding to gear-up to be able to do these much better scans.

Do you know of any 'gopro scale' camera setups that can do this synchronised stereo scanning underwater?


Quote
Quote
And underwater, sharpness is poor to start with!

Errr...No, it's not.
Sharpness is and should be inherent for every UW image if the correct method and equipment is used. If you are seeing blurred, out of focus or less than sharp images then the odds of producing a robust model are compromised I'm afraid.
Err, yes it is.  Sharpness is poor to start with.  Water doesn't not have the clarity of air, or as much light available.  This is why us divers comment on the 'visibility' on every single dive we make!
We can adapt our methods and equipment, but that absolutely takes a lot more money, and lot more time.  This is why my Manta Point dive site scanning is done at an altitude of just 4-5m!  The vis is very rarely great there (10-15m vis is 'poor' for us! (RIP UK divers lol!)), cloudy/raining, and sometimes green (which you can see in my map linked above!  Note the green areas!)  Imagine if we could 'drain the ocean', i could use a drone to scan the whole site in 1 or 2 flights, flying at 30-50m altitude, very quickly 'mowing the lawn' to cover the whole site.  But alas...


Back to ugurdemirezen's OP...

If you are 'stuck' with only a GoPro, then yes, as we've said, shooting in photo mode is the way forward.  2 second timelapse is good for area scanning, perhaps 1s timelapse if you're scanning a smaller area, and much closer to the reef, for greater detail.
And yes, if you want to, need to speed up your scanning, just get another GoPro, and mount them both on a pole/pipe, with the distance between them set such that you get good side-to-side overlap at the altitude you're swimming at, that gives you the accuracy you require.  And add an oblique, or diagonal pass or two to improve the 'flatness' even more.

Let us know how the scans go with the corrected setup!  They should be pretty good straight out of Metashape without having to change any settings!  (Which is why MS is amazing for us!)
My 'little' scan of our dive site, 'Manta Point'.  Mantas & divers photoshopped in for scale!
https://postimg.cc/K1sXypzs
Sketchfab Models:
https://sketchfab.com/cheeseandjamsandwich/models

SimonBrown

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Re: Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2024, 09:45:55 AM »
I can understand why sharpness is seen as poor. This:
Quote
Sharpness is poor to start with.  Water doesn't not have the clarity of air, or as much light available
And this:
Quote
This is why my Manta Point dive site scanning is done at an altitude of just 4-5m!

At this distance a housed DSLR would comfortably produce fuzzy, soft and unsharp underwater images. With a tiny sensor (compared to a DSLR) a GoPro has the odds stacked against it. 

The greatest challenge is not suspended matter - backscatter - but how water robs light. When I first picked up an UW camera I was given a piece of advice:

Get close. Then get closer still.

The single reason we all shoot with ultra wide angle lenses is typically their ability to focus very close to the front element, maybe just 20cm from the subject. Working close to the subject removes the maximum amount of water.

This example was shot at a distance of 1~2m in the English Channel. Vis was maybe 3~4m max:
https://construkted.com/asset/a4wijcuy6yw/

This one at the same distance, in better vis - 6~8m - but almost pitch black conditions thanks to a layer of plankton:
https://construkted.com/asset/art1ve7lisi/

And this one was shot in much better conditions, but again the 1~2m distance to subject was used:
https://construkted.com/asset/a3q7vacu0cq/

A GoPro will deliver better results when working much closer than 4~5m. It's not a question of kit (Kind of...read on...) but a question of method and technique that will go some way to really improve sharpness.

The second thing that will dramatically improve sharpness is artificial lighting. We cant control the shutter speed on a GoPro...but throw more light at the sensor and the camera will do that automatically. Lighting can be fixed and constant, which is better than no light, but strobes are better still as they deliver a short burst of intense light that helps freeze the action and improve sharpness.

Strobes really help improve efficiency as you can work much faster - less risk of motion blur.

Backscatter - the suspended particles - are always present. But photogrammetry software ignores them as they are moving relative to the primary subject. Any clumps of tie points from backscatter can be reduced using recursive optimisation, or manually excluded.

Why does sharpness matter?

Photogrammetry software will cope with blurred, soft or noisy images. They will align and things might look OK...the model always looks OK and without any constraints, who can really say if there are accuracy issues?

But when faced with specific issues - like the OP with a bent model - then the first look at what has gone wrong starts with the source images.

Look at the reprojection errors for each image. Anything >1.0 pixels is not good. Look at the number of tie points. Anything <100 is not good. Together they may (stress may, not seen the data) be causing curvature, as discussed in the paper I linked to.

There are few shortcuts in UW photography. We have supplied some technical services to design a rig to work at 3~4m and deliver a GSD of <1mm, but each camera sensor is 64mp and there is a huge amount of artificial light available. Even with this, the ROV speed is/was absolutely critical...too fast and it's all blurred.

I would urge anyone working UW to work really close to the subject, and to include artificial light. Quality jumps and with it the chances of greater, repeatable accuracy.

I would also hesitate to suggest that adding more cameras into a method that is creating images that lack inherent quality is the correct way to fix what appears to be fundamental image quality issues?

Unconvinced? Test it...work close and compare the results. Check the EXIF data for shutter speed and see if handholding a camera is going to induce motion blur. Borrow a light and repeat the test.

ugurdemirezen - if you can share the source images, drop me message here https://accupixel.co.uk/contact-us/ and I will be happy to take a look and see what the root cause may be.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2024, 10:18:17 AM by SimonBrown »
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CheeseAndJamSandwich

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Re: Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2024, 11:37:49 AM »
I can understand why sharpness is seen as poor. This:
Quote
Sharpness is poor to start with.  Water doesn't not have the clarity of air, or as much light available
And this:
Quote
This is why my Manta Point dive site scanning is done at an altitude of just 4-5m!

At this distance a housed DSLR would comfortably produce fuzzy, soft and unsharp underwater images. With a tiny sensor (compared to a DSLR) a GoPro has the odds stacked against it. 

The greatest challenge is not suspended matter - backscatter - but how water robs light. When I first picked up an UW camera I was given a piece of advice:

Get close. Then get closer still.

The single reason we all shoot with ultra wide angle lenses is typically their ability to focus very close to the front element, maybe just 20cm from the subject. Working close to the subject removes the maximum amount of water.

This example was shot at a distance of 1~2m in the English Channel. Vis was maybe 3~4m max:
https://construkted.com/asset/a4wijcuy6yw/

This one at the same distance, in better vis - 6~8m - but almost pitch black conditions thanks to a layer of plankton:
https://construkted.com/asset/art1ve7lisi/

And this one was shot in much better conditions, but again the 1~2m distance to subject was used:
https://construkted.com/asset/a3q7vacu0cq/

A GoPro will deliver better results when working much closer than 4~5m. It's not a question of kit (Kind of...read on...) but a question of method and technique that will go some way to really improve sharpness.
The goal for my scanning was to map the dive site.  So my 4-5 altitude allowed me to scan the whole site in 15 dives... This was with me learning from near scratch as i went along, swimming all over the show like a busy bee, but i could probably do the whole site in 10 dives with better quality, and MUCH, MUCH shorter alignment times, if i stuck to a 'mowing the lawn' pattern... Though, this is not easy as i'm swimming 400m with very few cues to help, only my compass, before turning to do the next swath.  Area scanning is a LOT harder to get constant overlap, compared to scanning a wreck, or rock formation, etc...  I think my mapped area is about 350m wide, 200m tall...  So 2.5 Thistlegorm by 1.5 Thistlegorms.
If i'd scanned it at 1-2m altitude, i'd still be down there today! And probably owing some deco time!

With my 3 cameras, on a 4m pole, @2m pitch, this gives me a swath of 6m (4m with 1m either side)...


Quote
The second thing that will dramatically improve sharpness is artificial lighting. We cant control the shutter speed on a GoPro...but throw more light at the sensor and the camera will do that automatically. Lighting can be fixed and constant, which is better than no light, but strobes are better still as they deliver a short burst of intense light that helps freeze the action and improve sharpness.

Strobes really help improve efficiency as you can work much faster - less risk of motion blur.

Backscatter - the suspended particles - are always present. But photogrammetry software ignores them as they are moving relative to the primary subject. Any clumps of tie points from backscatter can be reduced using recursive optimisation, or manually excluded.

Why does sharpness matter?

Photogrammetry software will cope with blurred, soft or noisy images. They will align and things might look OK...the model always looks OK and without any constraints, who can really say if there are accuracy issues?

But when faced with specific issues - like the OP with a bent model - then the first look at what has gone wrong starts with the source images.

Look at the reprojection errors for each image. Anything >1.0 pixels is not good. Look at the number of tie points. Anything <100 is not good. Together they may (stress may, not seen the data) be causing curvature, as discussed in the paper I linked to.

There are few shortcuts in UW photography. We have supplied some technical services to design a rig to work at 3~4m and deliver a GSD of <1mm, but each camera sensor is 64mp and there is a huge amount of artificial light available. Even with this, the ROV speed is/was absolutely critical...too fast and it's all blurred.

I would urge anyone working UW to work really close to the subject, and to include artificial light. Quality jumps and with it the chances of greater, repeatable accuracy.

I would also hesitate to suggest that adding more cameras into a method that is creating images that lack inherent quality is the correct way to fix what appears to be fundamental image quality issues?

I would absolutely love to get some lights to aid my scanning, but again, i'm limited by being absolutely skint. 

But again, i think you're missing the point...  IF you're stuck or not with gopro cameras, and with no lights, it doesn't matter what you're scanning, if you add a 2nd camera, it'll be twice as fast!  It's no different than swimming twice... With the benefit of having perfectly parallel paths...  Add the 3rd camera, and it's as if you're swimming 3 times, again, perfectly parallel.  4 cameras... etc. etc.  You just set the pitch of the cameras to give you the good side-to-side overlap, when you consider the altitude you've chosen to swim at, to give you the quality you would like.
So if you're scanning at 1m altitude, then the pitch between each camera might 0.5m... whatever works out...

So with the limitations of the camera, the lighting, the vis, etc. etc. etc. having 2 or more cameras on a pole allows you to get 2 or more perfectly parallel paths, which means the quality of the scan between them will be as good as it can be, give these limitations, JUST because its perfectly parallel, and at the perfect pitch between camera paths.  It just as if you're a perfect swimmer, swimming perfect straight paths, perfectly parallel...
IF you require better quality scans, you can change the altitude, the camera/path pitch, the lighting, the cameras, etc. etc. 
But the fact remains, that if you happened to have 2x, 3x, 4x, of your cameras available, perhaps with their own strobes, IF you put them on a pole, that satisfied the pitch you required for your side-to-side overlap.

So 2x of your Nikon rigs, with their strobes, would be faster at scanning than using just 1... And you'll get the solid data down the middle of the swath...
And if you could sync them, then you get all the benefits you described earlier, as a bonus.

We're limited on time underwater, so using 2 gopros, which is not impossible to have available, allows us to make better use of that dive.


Again, i'd absolutely LOVE to get some sync'd 45mp cameras on a carbon fibre pole, with a lighting array!
I can supply my bank details on request  8)
My 'little' scan of our dive site, 'Manta Point'.  Mantas & divers photoshopped in for scale!
https://postimg.cc/K1sXypzs
Sketchfab Models:
https://sketchfab.com/cheeseandjamsandwich/models

SimonBrown

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Re: Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2024, 01:31:30 PM »
Quote
I think my mapped area is about 350m wide, 200m tall...  So 2.5 Thistlegorm by 1.5 Thistlegorms.

Thats about 7ha.

Thistlegorm including interior spaces is 2.8053ha.

Quote
So 2x of your Nikon rigs, with their strobes, would be faster at scanning than using just 1... And you'll get the solid data down the middle of the swath...

The design of the lenses is geared around making a single, robust path. Not to extend the coverage.

The single and highest value of a two (or more) camera design is the constraint between the two cameras. From this anything can be measured. The focus (no pun) remains on capturing high quality source images that are blur free, in focus and sharp.

This example has several scale bars in the scene. All are 0.25m across the furthest targets and none were used as constraints. The sole source of constraint is the distance between the two cameras:

https://construkted.com/asset/agtfws69uwk/

Syncing was not intended to be a bonus, but an absolute requirement before sourcing a second camera. Had syncing been impossible, zero would have been spent on additional kit.

Quote
If i'd scanned it at 1-2m altitude, i'd still be down there today! And probably owing some deco time

At a range of 1~2m the Thistlegorm took, including deco, 13 hours of in-water time. It's a price that has to be paid for sharp, lit images. Again, there are no shortcuts in UW photography.

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But again, i think you're missing the point...  IF you're stuck or not with gopro cameras, and with no lights, it doesn't matter what you're scanning, if you add a 2nd camera, it'll be twice as fast!

Add a camera? Or add a light?

Adding a camera will increase the volume of images and thus area. Adding a light will increase the quality of images.

The OP has a choice here. Both options involve spending money. I would really, really hesitate to recommend adding more cameras - creating low quality source images - as a way to resolve curvature or alignment issues.

Quote
IF you require better quality scans, you can change the altitude, the camera/path pitch, the lighting, the cameras, etc. etc.

If you are wanting to monitor something on the seabed, to record if/how it changes, then quantitative and qualitative data is an absolute requirement?

Otherwise, how can anything be compared/measured?

Bottom line; Improving the source images will not be achieved by adding more cameras. More blurred images will not resolve what is - I believe - a fundamental question of image quality.

Whereas; Changing the technique and methods - including artificial light - will.

I am not suggesting for one minute your work at Manta Point isn't impressive - it is - but chucking more cameras and  images at the OPs problem might not be the solution here.
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CheeseAndJamSandwich

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Re: Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2024, 04:16:38 PM »
Bottom line; Improving the source images will not be achieved by adding more cameras. More blurred images will not resolve what is - I believe - a fundamental question of image quality.

Whereas; Changing the technique and methods - including artificial light - will.

I am not suggesting for one minute your work at Manta Point isn't impressive - it is - but chucking more cameras and  images at the OPs problem might not be the solution here.

I'll repeat again, what i said initially:
Quote from: CheeseAndJamSandwich
I use 2x GoPro 7s mounted on a 3m water pipe (making it 2x faster to scan the site)...  Add more cameras for more faster!

Adding cameras makes it faster.
Finding a dive buddy that has another GoPro that they'll lend you is very plausible.
Getting a length of water pipe from the hardware store and a couple of cable-ties is really easy and cheap.

This was just tip on making scanning reefs faster with GoPros, like the one he's using.

So, does anyone have any contacts at GoPro???
I'd LOVE to get hold of 9 new gopros... Firstly so i can make and populate 2 extra camera poles, such that i could have to dive buddies flank me when scanning, for massive area scans very quickly! (probbo safer too, as i solo-dive all my scanning at the moment! But yes, i do take my dive buddy call AL80 with me)...  But also i'd love to be able to mount extra cameras at oblique angles, which help with the banana. 
I can but dream...........

Anyhoo.
We're both excited to see when ugurdemirezen logs back in to say that switching modes to Timelapse Photo fixed everything! 
My 'little' scan of our dive site, 'Manta Point'.  Mantas & divers photoshopped in for scale!
https://postimg.cc/K1sXypzs
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SimonBrown

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Re: Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2024, 05:27:59 PM »
Quote
Adding cameras makes it faster.
This was just tip on making scanning reefs faster with GoPros, like the one he's using.

Yes, but the OP's problem is a bent model whose root cause is (likely) to be related to image quality, or method, or a combination of both.

Adding in more cameras and using the same methods will not address the root cause, will it?

And faster is absolutely not always better.

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James

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Re: Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2024, 01:54:02 PM »
I am using GoPro Hero 12 as I mentioned on the caption.

Any information will be great for me.

1- I was capturing a video with wide settings and Hypersmooth "on". I made a research and it came out that when Hypersmooth is "on" It plays with the pixels and it is bad for photogrammetry.

Hi!

Here's a couple of other things you can try if you aren't able to reshoot following some of the the wise and practical suggestions above.

See the screenshot attached.

If you haven't already, take a look at your calibration settings by going Tools -> Camera Calibration.

I believe that GoPro 12 in Wide mode gives a fisheye image so check if you can get better results if you change from the default Frame mode to Fisheye, then come out and optimise the chunk.

Another thing you can try is to right click the calibration group(s) in the left hand panel and split them, then come out and optimise the chunk.

Splitting the calibration group means that each image will get its own calibration parameters, rather than one set of calibration parameters for the whole group.

Hypersmooth must necessarily crop every image, and by different amounts and in different places, amongst other corrections, so a global estimation for focal length and principal point will not be applicable to most, if any, of the images, and this would certainly lead to a bending effect.

Splitting the calibration group is not normally recommended because images with fewer tie points could end up with their parameters being estimated wildly wrongly, and you would normally go to lengths to ensure that your images do have the same internal parameters, but with Hypersmooth it's guaranteed that they won't have, so this may improve things.

There's a good chance that the alignment ends up worse after this but I work with appalling images all the time and can normally wrangle something out of them by trying this sort of stuff.

Also do you have any calibration while using the Agisoft Metashape? Like focal length and pixel size?

It can help to have a precalibration xml file if you have an idea how your camera should be calibrated, and if the images aren't good enough for metashape to figure it out during alignment, but in your case there is no single good calibration because hypersmooth will have messed with each image differently.

Finally, dont go down the route of thinking camera calibration will fix your alignment:

But dare to dream that it might. Admittedly the ideas above are just the tip of an iceberg and there is a rabbit hole down the middle of the iceberg which may not be the most productive place to explore.

CheeseAndJamSandwich

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Re: Underwater Photogrammetry with GoPro Hero 12
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2024, 12:28:47 AM »
Quote
Adding cameras makes it faster.
This was just tip on making scanning reefs faster with GoPros, like the one he's using.

Yes, but the OP's problem is a bent model whose root cause is (likely) to be related to image quality, or method, or a combination of both.

Adding in more cameras and using the same methods will not address the root cause, will it?

And faster is absolutely not always better.
Please reread my first reply in this thread.  And his reply to it.

We've learnt that he's using video, with Hypersmooth...  This explains why he's getting bad alignment very easily.  And when he gets a chance to do another dive with it set to photo mode, then he'll get great results, straight away!  As Metashape does work great for underwater gopro photo scans, out of the box... Much better than the competition too!

The multiple camera trick, which i talked about, and clearly described, is JUST a way of speeding up the data gathering.
No matter what camera you use, no matter if it's natural light, video lights, strobes, having 2x rigs will be 2x faster!  It's as if you swam twice!

This is valid for ANY camera setup.
If

I've never suggested that it'd fix this banana alignment.  We both know, and said, it needs to be photos, not Hypersmooth video!  Please re-read my first replies.

WHEN ugurdemirezen reshoots his reef, he'll likely get fantastic results, similar to like my results.  BUT yes, they'll have the limitations of being 'just' a cheap and simple GoPro setup, with natural light, and not a $10-15,000 dSLR/Mirrorless setup with expensive glass, housing, vacuum pump, ports, domes, 2 strobes, sync cables, and long arms...

WHEN ugurdemirezen gets these good results, then there's a very plausible chance that he can get access to another GoPro, from a friend, dive buddy, and very plausibly be able to knock up a pole to mount the 2 gopros on...   JUST to make it faster.

Please re-read my replies!

Adding more cameras makes the scanning faster.
It's very, very simple logic.
Instead of swimming 2 parallel tracks, mount 2x cameras as that same pitch.  And swim once!
This is unarguable logic.  Yes?

And faster absolutely IS better.  When you understand how it's made faster.
We only get that 1 hour-ish underwater!
My 'little' scan of our dive site, 'Manta Point'.  Mantas & divers photoshopped in for scale!
https://postimg.cc/K1sXypzs
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