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Author Topic: Syncing flashes turntable setup  (Read 19742 times)

markyboy

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Syncing flashes turntable setup
« on: March 11, 2014, 02:05:27 PM »
Hi

When I first started out with my turntable setup I wanted to trigger my strobes optically using the popup flash on one of my Canon 600Ds. It became apperent that the pop flash just couldn't keep up with being fired every second or so. It would recycle fine for 10-15 flashes then throw up a busy message before I could fire of another load. I was confused as to why the camera would keep doing this. Checking through the manual for the 600D it says "If you shoot continuously with the built-in flash at short intervals, the flash might stop operating to protect the flash"

So with that I purchased a wireless trigger. I put the transmitter on a camera and the receiver on one of the strobes and had it trigger the other strobe optically in slave mode. The camera which had the transmitter plugged into its hotshoe synced up great with both strobes at a shutter speed of 1/200. The other cameras occasionally synced up but would have the dreaded black bars creeping into some of there shot. Thinking I was pushing my luck with a shutter speed of 1/200 I've gone to 1/125 which has pretty much solved the problem with no more black bars appearing on any of the photos.

I am right in saying that the only reason one of the cameras was synced at 1/200 was because it had the transmitter plugged into it?

Is there any other setup I can do to get all my cameras syncing with the strobes at 1/200 or do I have to stick with the lower shutter speeds? Just that with a turntable setup I've keen to keep my speeds high.

Thanks Mark.



alexb

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Re: Syncing flashes turntable setup
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2014, 02:14:21 PM »
if you shoot in a dark inought environement so that the ambiant light dont afect the shots, you can esealy go to 1/60 or less...

markyboy

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Re: Syncing flashes turntable setup
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2014, 02:22:07 PM »
Its that too slow for an object/person moving on a turntable ?

Thanks Mark.

alexb

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Re: Syncing flashes turntable setup
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2014, 04:02:36 PM »
not if the room is dark between flashs the flash light itselfs is around 1/1000 - 1/50000 depending the flash and the power.

markyboy

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Re: Syncing flashes turntable setup
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2014, 05:37:19 PM »
I see, so as its completely dark the strobe dictates the shutter speed. Not sure what it will be like for a person standing on a turn table in the dark, but I shall give it a go. Thanks!

Mark.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 07:06:45 PM by markyboy »

vfxman222

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Re: Syncing flashes turntable setup
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2014, 06:56:35 PM »
Firing flash strobes in a dark room is a sure fire way to damage your talent's eyes. The extreme light flooding an iris that is adjusted to the darkness, even if it is very low ambient, can be painful and damaging. Be careful about this. Always use the modeling lamp on your strobe to help ease the light transmission to your talent, or they should have their eyes closed if using a dark room.

As far as syncing, Pocket Wizard makes the MultiMax transceiver that allows for syncing multiple cameras and flash strobes. You can set millisecond delays to pull everything into sync with your slowest camera or flash.

The black band is shutter sync related. Usually you can push it to 1/200 or 1/250 depending on your lights and camera equipment. The millisecond difference of firing a slave camera from your main camera can cause the delay. We're talking about the speed of light here, so all cameras must have their shutters open at that very same moment the flash is hitting your subject.
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markyboy

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Re: Syncing flashes turntable setup
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2014, 03:48:02 PM »
Thanks for the advice. Although wouldn't a modelling lamp introduce ambient light into the scene?

Pocket wizard looks to be a good solution, but its quite a pricey piece of kit. I've been spending a lot on camera equipment  over the past few months. So something like that would have to wait a little. unless there are cheaper triggers out there? I appreciate Pocket Wizard are the best.

As I said my current setup is only managing to sync at 1/125 and even then I wouldn't say its perfect.

Thanks Mark.

Lambo

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Re: Syncing flashes turntable setup
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2014, 02:56:13 AM »
Would it work if you use some of these Yongnuo transceivers? They are much cheaper than the Pocket Wizards http://www.amazon.com/Yongnuo-RF-603-II-Wireless-Transceiver/dp/B00HOX8X9G/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1394754687&sr=1-3&keywords=Yongnuo+RF+canon
You can use one to transmit the signal, then use the others on the cameras and on the flash? That only if you can add a delay on the flash itself.
If not, you can connect the flash transmitter on top of one of these in one of the cameras.
That is what I am about to do myself.
Correct me if I am doing something completely wrong though :)
Leo

gamegoof

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Re: Syncing flashes turntable setup
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2014, 05:41:47 AM »
The modelling light compared to the flashes is insignificant , or was anyways with the setup I had, like having a candle in the sunshine

vfxman222

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Re: Syncing flashes turntable setup
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2014, 07:12:28 AM »
As gamegoof mentioned, it gets over powered by the flash. Modeling lamps usually have a built in feature to shut off during a flash fire as well too on some models. Alienbees have this feature.

I hear you on the the equipment spending. I've been grabbing things over the last two months. Ya, the PocketWizards are not cheap, but you can find a bunch on eBay in the $120-150 range. I got four from eBay this way. I only recommended them because I had the sync issues with cheaper triggers. They would fire just so subtlety off from each other to cause headaches during my testing setups. Granted I am merging a Canon mark iii with two canon 350D cameras. The 350D's have about a 12 millisecond slower trigger timing.
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markyboy

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Re: Syncing flashes turntable setup
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2014, 01:37:12 AM »
Well I did a test over the weekend in a pretty dark room. Thought i'd try without the modelling lamps. Shutter speeds on the cameras set to 1/100. As you you said vfxman it wasn't all that comfortable for both me and the model with the strobes going off. All worked great but will try with the lamps in my next test to make it easier on the eyes.

Looking to the future though I would like higher shutter speeds so going back to the pocket wizards, what kind of setup have you got with them vfxman ? Have you got one on a camera and the rest on the strobes or cameras ?

Mark.

vfxman222

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Re: Syncing flashes turntable setup
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2014, 04:35:00 AM »
I have three cameras and four strobes. I also need get one more MultiMax (MM) so I can simply remote fire everything, but it is currently setup like this:
- Each camera has an MM attached.
- One strobe has an MM attached. The AlienBees have a flash sync trigger built into them and are in slave mode by default, so when I trigger one strobe with the MM, the other three get fired simultaneously.
- Each light is using a 48" diffusion umbrella.

With only two AlienBees 400's I was able to get shutter of 180-200. 200 started showing a very slight creep in of the shutter curtain in the shots, but still useable.
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David Torno

markyboy

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Re: Syncing flashes turntable setup
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2014, 01:38:38 AM »
I see so your using them to trigger the cameras as well as the strobe. I went down the cable route for triggering the cameras, again to save some money. So are you able to dial in some for sort adjustment into the pocket wizards to compensate for the slight difference in shutter speeds between your cameras?

Mark

vfxman222

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Re: Syncing flashes turntable setup
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2014, 04:03:30 AM »
Correct. The older cameras (350D) have a very delayed shutter when firing remotely against the newer and just plain faster 5D Mark iii. It's roughly 12 milliseconds difference in my setup, so what I need to do is slow down the firing of the lights and cameras down to the weakest (slowest) link in the chain to get them to all go at once. 12 milliseconds doesn't sound like much and is barely noticeable when taking shots normally, but shows up blatantly in a system like this when those slow cameras capture solid black images because they missed the light completely. :)
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David Torno

markyboy

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Re: Syncing flashes turntable setup
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2014, 01:07:42 AM »
Definitely sounds the way to go, great system for mixing different cameras. Talking of cameras, think my priority is still to by a couple more, perhaps 1100Ds again to keeps costs down.

Mark