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Author Topic: Single camera scanning thread?  (Read 34929 times)

Infinite

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Re: Single camera scanning thread?
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2014, 12:51:37 PM »
James of Ten24 had a talk with me.  Told me it was BS for me not to keep participating on the site.

With all due respect to James and Chris (the owner) at Ten24, they will say that. As they are one of the companies who sadly don't participate here, yet make a very good living out of Photoscan. It's a shame they haven't posted here over the years and I hope to see them do so soon (perhaps this post will encourage that!)

I in fact can't stand Photoscan body scans, they pale in comparison to detailed work I'm getting from a combination of Artec Eva and the Artec Spider.

Information like this is negative and incorrect. You can't make a sweeping statement like that Jeffrey. It will alienate you to others.

Also posting a composite full body scan, that has had a ton of post work and modelling as a scanning comparison is moot. The amount of post work an Artec scan needs is mind numbing.

If you have the correct multi DSLR set-up the results can be amazing. The Artec system is VERY dated and VERY cumbersome. I know, I've owned several since 2008 before they were even commercially available in Europe, let alone the US.

It's commendable that you are trying to encourage others and teach from your experience. Stay positive.

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bartosh44

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Re: Single camera scanning thread?
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2014, 02:05:38 PM »
I don't get it (hate email etc). I respect all PRO users and their knowledge. I've bought amazing standard version and Im playing with one dslr, modo and Zbrush.

I can understand elitism in Blender community becouse in free software knowledge is only one key. But if someone do commercial software it is logic that all registered users will want join community to learn from best PRO users (or other fresh users). Idea of commercial softwares is to sell as many licences as possible. Main problem is that Agisoft is so perfect that even not smart user after knowing rules (ISO,aperture,shutter,dof,noise,light,resolution,bit depth) may do good commercial works with one camera. That forum should be opened only for people who bought legal copy of software if you  ddon't want to share knowledge to everyone. But people like me who bought legal version of softwares want to learn how to use it public from whole community (like this happen on Modo,Moi,Zbrush community where I am present) not from PM. I know that one camera work need heavy post in Zbrush etc. Big rings do it much faster and better. PRO users may do not want share their knowledge but CANT forbid share knowledge on community site.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 12:28:23 PM by bartosh44 »

jeffreyianwilson

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Re: Single camera scanning thread?
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2014, 04:19:26 PM »
Beg your pardon but I will say what I please.  I am speaking from my own experience.  Its my own opinion and you telling me I have no right to express it is BS.

Its only my opinion and its based on years of experience considering cost, portability and return on investment.

2008?  It's 2014 now.  You are basing your statement out of experience which dates 6 years ago? Get with the program, the Spider is a recent release.  This is the same blanket criticism of other peoples opinions which frustrate me here.

You have no right to tell people what people should say or not.  Who made you the authority?

People can take what they want from me, my opinion is not the word of God and I know it.

As for doctored scans, the shoe and hand are RAW output.

J
James of Ten24 had a talk with me.  Told me it was BS for me not to keep participating on the site.

With all due respect to James and Chris (the owner) at Ten24, they will say that. As they are one of the companies who sadly don't participate here, yet make a very good living out of Photoscan. It's a shame they haven't posted here over the years and I hope to see them do so soon (perhaps this post will encourage that!)

I in fact can't stand Photoscan body scans, they pale in comparison to detailed work I'm getting from a combination of Artec Eva and the Artec Spider.

Information like this is negative and incorrect. You can't make a sweeping statement like that Jeffrey. It will alienate you to others.

Also posting a composite full body scan, that has had a ton of post work and modelling as a scanning comparison is moot. The amount of post work an Artec scan needs is mind numbing.

If you have the correct multi DSLR set-up the results can be amazing. The Artec system is VERY dated and VERY cumbersome. I know, I've owned several since 2008 before they were even commercially available in Europe, let alone the US.

It's commendable that you are trying to encourage others and teach from your experience. Stay positive.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 05:01:35 PM by jeffreyianwilson »

Infinite

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Re: Single camera scanning thread?
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2014, 07:11:42 PM »
Very overly dramatic. You will need a much thicker skin than that if you are trying to interact and share your experience with the community.

"they pale in comparison to detailed work I'm getting from a combination of Artec Eva and the Artec Spider."

I have every right to say what I think against that. It's rude and ignorant to post that here. It's like sh*tting on your own door step.

"As for doctored scans, the shoe and hand are RAW output."

Yes. I can tell.

"I am speaking from my own experience."

This was my main point. You lack multi-camera experience to make such a sweeping comment about Photoscan.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 07:21:12 PM by Infinite »
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Marcel

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Re: Single camera scanning thread?
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2014, 12:20:17 AM »
Quote

This was my main point. You lack multi-camera experience to make such a sweeping comment about Photoscan.

He doesn't need to have experience with multi camera setups to give his opinion on the quality though? All he needs to see is the result (the mesh itself)?

That said,  even if the detail was slightly lower,  you can do things with a photogrammetry rig that are impossible with laser scanners (for example lots of facial expressions in a short time). Also,  the texture from Photoscan seems way better from what I've seen.

FoodMan

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Re: Single camera scanning thread?
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2014, 09:39:36 AM »


Its only my opinion and its based on years of experience considering cost, portability and return on investment.



a bit lost... you said



I in fact can't stand Photoscan body scans, they pale in comparison to detailed work I'm getting from a combination of Artec Eva and the Artec Spider.

Jeff

the page before you speak about Quality of scans... and then you speak about cost, portability and return on investment...

wtf... hehe.. not my intend to start a nuclear war, but I was just wondering...  :)

f/

FoodMan

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Re: Single camera scanning thread?
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2014, 09:42:38 AM »

.... Also,  the texture from Photoscan seems way better from what I've seen.

that's what I think too... nearly unusable ... very low quality.. and I think that's the problem with such system..

f/

Infinite

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Re: Single camera scanning thread?
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2014, 10:37:08 AM »
Quote

This was my main point. You lack multi-camera experience to make such a sweeping comment about Photoscan.

He doesn't need to have experience with multi camera setups to give his opinion on the quality though? All he needs to see is the result (the mesh itself)?


Of course you do, it's not just about the final output. You need to know how to use the data properly. For example there's a big difference between an 80 camera system to a 150 camera system. Incremental improvements. Once you've scanned 100's and 100's of people, different clothing, different poses. Instant capture. Faster post-processing. Amazing colour output and high frequency details you can't get with an Artec system. You begin to realize the differences.

The quality and speed far out way any structured light system. You gain that knowledge through experience.

Plus an Artec Spider is useless for full body scanning. It would take about an hour to scan someone and you would have way too much polygonal data to manage.
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bartosh44

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Re: Single camera scanning thread?
« Reply #53 on: April 21, 2014, 12:44:59 PM »
What do you think about mixing method, f.e. scanning laser scan base shape and fit it with Agisoft one dslr raw scan (f.e. markers). Then should be possible reprojecting texture on that mesh inside Agisoft (import mesh). It would give Laser scan with 16bit texture from photogrammetry (to make tiny details from HQ texture - normal, specular, glossy, mask insinde Zbrush with inflate/deflate). Question is what is better one dslr camera photogrammetry scan or laser scan. If answer is photogrammetry then it`s not worth. But now I am waiting for Kinect v2 for windows. I know it`s far from perfection but every year gives us better sensors quality. It`s only matter of time when border will be crossed. Medium level DSLR are better every year too. I think better resolution and bigger bit depth will allow get better final results with one dslr scan. It`s only my opinion and it may not be not right becouse I`m fresh user.

Edit: I am not comparing final effect of ring to that but I`m only look for new oportunities to make cheap scans better.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 12:56:34 PM by bartosh44 »

Ten24

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Re: Single camera scanning thread?
« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2014, 06:07:14 PM »
Someone directed me to this post, I notice my name is getting banded around a bit :) Sorry guys I don't post on forums for this very reason.. Love AGI, Love photogrammetry, its the way forward and nothing beats it but I'm not prepared to open up on here because of nonsense like this.. If anyone wants to ask me anything they are more than welcome just mail me at jamie@ten24.info or find me on Facebook, I've helped loads of people out in the past and continue to do so privately via email. There is loads of info on our blog and I've shared hundreds of images and tips on Facebook please don't accuse me of not helping out and forgive me for not wanting to be part of a community that sends hate mail to people who share information.

Cheers Jamie.

Andrew

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Re: Single camera scanning thread?
« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2014, 09:08:40 PM »
I don't usually participate in this sort of discussion, and I will try to make it as brief as possible:

Please stop the nonsense of addressing Agisoft forum community as a whole in connection with some isolated 'hate email' that has NOTHING to do with this forum or this community. This forum has been nothing but helpful and respectful to anyone and everyone, even towards the strong opinioned and emotional users. I honestly can't recall a single post that would seem even remotely hateful, personal or otherwise inappropriate, including the original thread about single camera scanning that got deleted. It's only this here discussion that got unnecessarily heated. The beef anyone might have with one another, please keep us, the community, out of it.

Thank you,
Andrew

Ten24

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Re: Single camera scanning thread?
« Reply #56 on: May 02, 2014, 10:22:04 AM »
Quote
Please stop the nonsense of addressing Agisoft forum community as a whole in connection with some isolated 'hate email' that has NOTHING to do with this forum or this community. This forum has been nothing but helpful and respectful to anyone and everyone, even towards the strong opinioned and emotional users. I honestly can't recall a single post that would seem even remotely hateful, personal or otherwise inappropriate, including the original thread about single camera scanning that got deleted. It's only this here discussion that got unnecessarily heated. The beef anyone might have with one another, please keep us, the community, out of it.

Point well made Andrew, I apologies for my last comment, I didn't mean it to sound as harsh and all encompassing of the AGI community as it did, it only takes one person to spoil it for everyone, and as I said is very much the reason I don't bother with forums, it just winds me up..