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Author Topic: PDF Limitation on Texture  (Read 16404 times)

Oli63

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PDF Limitation on Texture
« on: April 14, 2012, 01:43:16 PM »
After several trials it seems to me that the Adobe Reader has a limitation of 8000 x 8000 pixels for the texture of 3D models in PDF, which is rather disappointing for customers when modeling areas of up to 1 km2. I can display a resolution up to 30000 pixels in photoscan but not hand out the 3D-data to the customer, except of exporting the mesh into Autocad or other formats.
Does anyone have an idea how to improve this in order to create a bigger wow-effect by the customer and show more detail?
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Wishgranter

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Re: PDF Limitation on Texture
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2012, 02:16:34 PM »
render it out :-) curent state of sw and hw cannot cope with outputs in this area of detail :-( probably it can be done but must consider to break model in smaller parts and smaller textures - can send me a snapshot of what is output ?



BUT let a try to this solution and let us know if it was something with use for you :-) http://fibix.org/index.php
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akemono

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Re: PDF Limitation on Texture
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2012, 02:44:02 PM »
@Wishgranter:
I tried it but i think that fibix is only usefull if you want to render offline. I didn't find any online examples, plus the installer needs to many clicks to install for the average user to be interesting.

I still think that Unity or Epic will be a better choice, that is ofcouse if your main goal is to show it on the web. Epic has some form of Flash support built into the Source code licensed version of their game engine. Unfortunatly i can't check it because i'm not going to pay X$ to just find that out. Their UDK does not have the Flash support, but maby that Flash will eventualy find it's way to the UDK as well.

@Oli63
Try a game-engine like the ones I described above, and you can also consider using the Cryengine. Im sure that will blow your customers away ;)

Oli63

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Re: PDF Limitation on Texture
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2012, 03:15:34 PM »
Thank you both for these ideas. I'd like to experiment with the cryengine, if it could be a solution for my problem. I only don't have even 5 % of your experience in these things as it seems. How does working with a game machine in this case look like (I don't intend to develop games)? Can I export the mesh and a high resolution orthophoto from PS and let the game engine put both parts together and show the result within a viewer of the game engine, or how does this work?
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akemono

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Re: PDF Limitation on Texture
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2012, 04:06:07 PM »
Hi Oli63,
Unfortunatly i did not work with the Cryengine yet. But that might change in the near future.

Developing a game is not that much different then from making a model. You have your mesh that you import into the game. Though it usually has to meet certain criteria. After a succesfull import you can apply a shader to it and assign a texture to that shader. Then add some way of moving the camera and perhaps a HUD and your done.

It's really not that hard, youtube has many hours of tutorials on this stuff.

But there are some "hard" limitations, for instance:
  • Unreal can handle up to 8k textures
  • Unity can only handle up to 4k Textures
  • I don't know Unreals poly limit per mesh
  • Unity can handle up to 64K vertexes per mesh, after that it offers you the option to divide the mesh up into smaller parts.

So most of the time your limited by how big your textures can be.
Insidious Technologies has a very nice plugin for Unity that allows you to use up to 512K textures. It's super cool feature but the only drawback would be that you can't use it online. http://insidious.pt/#amplify

To view your results in a game-engine you have to bake the game. This basically tells the game to package the game and compress it into something more convenient to transfer. After this process you have a installer that will install the game and you can run it like any other game. This way you can show it to potential customers.

Alternatively you can also run it "live", UDK Cryengine and Unity all support this. In the editor you have your scene and you can play it from there. However this has one drawback, you have to run both the Editor and the game at the same time which is more resource intensive and does not always give you a smooth playback in all circumstances.

Pffew, i think thats enough info right there. If you want to know more just pm/mail me and i'll try to help you the best i can.

Best,
Mike

Oli63

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Re: PDF Limitation on Texture
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2012, 05:45:08 PM »
Hi Mike!
Many thanks for the detailed help. Meanwhile I hazzle around with the installation of the cryengine, which is making trouble about missing DX11 files. My PC is brandnew and ultrastrong, so hardware shouldn't be a limitation.
Online use is not a must so Insiduous looks good with its Amplify, but 1500 $ for the required Pro version is rather prohibitive.
Does anyone have further ideas to solve this problem?

Best
Oliver
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Kjellis85

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Re: PDF Limitation on Texture
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2012, 11:22:23 PM »

Wishgranter

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Re: PDF Limitation on Texture
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2012, 12:16:44 AM »
Yes for low high volume, that mean it depend on what need to show, but they use a low res mesh with decent quality of texture and it see very good. So a for presentation to clients is best to think what is best to show.  that mean a hires mesh, hires textures = complication and limitations, or lower res mesh and "hires" textures. it depend on amound of details that they can "will" see.

From what we internally testing is the UDK most plausible way, they already implemented a Flash support (3D HW supp.) in the payed version, not the free version ( in few months ). Its compability with tools like 3DS max is flawles, and if you know a few related things then is work with it in area of "begginer"

and yes, it limited to 65k vertices both Unreal-UDK, UNITY and as far as i know Cry eingine 3 too - it depend on shaders - vertices must fit in shader memory ( in short )     
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Oli63

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Re: PDF Limitation on Texture
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2012, 10:57:22 AM »
Question for Alexey:
As this issue is obviously significant for quite some PS-fans and there doesn't seem to be a really satisfying solution, it might be a good idea to solve the problem by yourself. I think of an extremely simple viewer, derived from PS, which doesn't do anything else than what the Adobe PDF-reader does, but only for .psz-files. You would only have to remove all the functionality from PS except for the 3D navigation with the ball. It should be a small software for free which we can give away to the customer together with the .psz file on a USB-stick, able to show high resolution textures.
Wouldn't this be a simple and quick solution that could work as a booster for making PS more popular?
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tezen

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Re: PDF Limitation on Texture
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2012, 12:30:02 PM »
I`d like to see an .psz-file-viewer too. It?s like a very good promotion and would increase the sales of PS for sure.
One other idea: Implent ZBrushs GoZ inside PhotoScan (I?d even pay for a PhotoScan-GoZ-Plugin!). Pixologic?s ZBrush and AgiSofts PhotoScan would be a very powerful solution for cleaning up the scanned models, UV-Mapping and retopology (in the future within QRemesher). Right now ZBrush is limited to 8k-Texturemaps but it will be better in upcoming 64-Bit-Versions. I`m sure Pixologic is very interested in this idea. Both (AgiSofts PhotoScan and Pixologics ZBrush) would raise more popularity!

BTW to Alexey: Thanks for your software and those constant updates!

Alexey Pasumansky

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Re: PDF Limitation on Texture
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2012, 01:27:17 PM »
Question for Alexey:
As this issue is obviously significant for quite some PS-fans and there doesn't seem to be a really satisfying solution, it might be a good idea to solve the problem by yourself. I think of an extremely simple viewer, derived from PS, which doesn't do anything else than what the Adobe PDF-reader does, but only for .psz-files. You would only have to remove all the functionality from PS except for the 3D navigation with the ball. It should be a small software for free which we can give away to the customer together with the .psz file on a USB-stick, able to show high resolution textures.
Wouldn't this be a simple and quick solution that could work as a booster for making PS more popular?

Hello,

And way PhotoScan demo version couldn't be used as .psz viewer?
Currently PhotoScan texture visualization depend on a hardware configuration. The maximum texture size that could be shown by PhotoScan is displayed in PhotoScan console at program startup. If the texture size is large than that number it is automatically downscaled for correct visualization in Model view window.
Best regards,
Alexey Pasumansky,
Agisoft LLC

Wishgranter

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Re: PDF Limitation on Texture
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2012, 02:05:28 PM »
There is the "biggest" problem many of us still don?t want show in what sw package it was created :-)

but for my own best practice is to use the

http://www.mootools.com/plugins/us/3dbrowserpro/index.asp it load even textures if in jpg and no space is in name.......
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Wishgranter

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Re: PDF Limitation on Texture
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2012, 05:32:01 PM »
hmm today found this - CRY Eingine 3 and Architectural use...... Enjoy :-)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EySdWbR4qcg&feature=player_embedded
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Oli63

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Re: PDF Limitation on Texture
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2012, 08:09:58 PM »
Cool!
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