I'm lost [Handheld shooting]

[Shade3]

Hello. I'm making a model i cant use tripod because of the object.
I shoot at 6 pm because there isnt any shadow left and there is still light.

I set my aperture to 22 because it gets blurry patches when textured.
I set my shutter speed to 1/125 because i couldnt set below that. My hand always shake. I tried 80 and 100 and still blurred.
I set my ISO to 800 for less noise.

If i do all of these my photos are almost all black. What should i do?
Any handheld shooters out there any tips and tricks appreciated. I'm lost. 

[ekbmuts]

Shade3, Hi.  My guess is that there just isn't enough light to expose your shot.

1.  f22 is a VERY small aperture.  That means the hole in the camera through which light passes to make  the image on your camera's sensor is tiny.

2.  1/125 of a second is a fairly fast shutter speed.  This makes matters worse for you because not only do you have a tiny hole for the light to get through (f22) but you're giving that light very little time to make it through the hole.

3.  ISO 800 probably helps matters but the higher your ISO, the MORE noise you will get.  Depending on your camera, there is a limit to how high you can go with ISO.

4.  I don't know where you are located geographically but I'd say that 6pm is probably not the brightest part of the day and so this makes the light situation even more critical.  That is, I would guess there's not all that much light left at 6pm.

I believe that all these factors work together to give you these "almost black" images.

Please tell me:

1.  What camera are you using?

2.  What lens?

3.  What are you shooting?  Meaning, what object are you taking pictures of?

4.  Why can't you use a tripod?

Answer these questions and I will help you. I shoot handheld all the time.

Jon

[Shade3]

Thanks. Can you post your settings?

I tried changing every setting and buildng a model. While texturing if aperture below 22 i see blurs on textures.
I tried 29 but 22 is good enough. If its like 12 while i shoot photos and making circles around the object the photo i shot has blurs on edges and next photo after that doesnt have blurs on same spot but while texturing PS uses some of previous photo and get blurry patches.

I somewhat had a success with 1/80 shutter speed but when i press the button to capture a photo - camera slightly moves and get blurry. I dont see on full size even on PC but when i zoom i can see it. Sometimes i have to bend on one knee while my one hand grabs the wall and i shoot with one hand and my photos get blur.  but i dont see any blur on 1/125. thats why i stuck with it.

I tried high ISO like 6400 which was ok for light but it looked like very grainy.

It gets dark here in like 8.40 pm i shoot at like 4-5 pm and its ok. i would think its bright.

Camera: Nikon D5200
Lens: Nikon DX VR AF-S Nikkor 18-55mm [stock lens]

Im shooting a tree with branches like the one in this picture.
http://4everstatic.com/pictures/674xX/people/artistic/girl,-swing,-freedom,-old-tree,-defoliate-tree-148276.jpg

I have to make rings around the branches and shoot lots of from above.

[ekbmuts]

Shade3, Okay.

Are you shooting the tree or the girl as well?

Trees can be tough to shoot.  Too many thin branches.  And often too much movement if the wind is blowing.

Shooting a tree with a girl hanging from it is close to impossible.  If she moves AT ALL, it's a bust.  You could shoot at 1/5000 sec to avoid blur but if she moves, it's not going to work.  Not to discourage you, but I don't know of anyone that could hold dead-still in the position in your photo for more than 30 seconds.

Your camera has a built-in exposure meter.  Are you using it?

f16 is all that you need.

ISO 800 sounds high, but okay.  I'd go lower to avoid grain.

And shutter speed at 1/125 sec is fine too.  But my question is, are you getting a correct exposure?

Can you post a couple of the shots that you actually took?  Or are they all black?

Finally:  You said in your original post that can't you use a tripod? Why not?  I don't know how you could shoot this without a tripod.

Jon

[Shade3]

Im not shooting the girl. or even that tree. that picture i found on google. i just wanted to show how its like.
i removed all my pictures because all of them wanst good enough.

How can i use tripod after climbing on a tree? below shots are fine but top of it not - for tripod.

Im not going there before sorting this out. But i will post a picture. Check below.
f16 - 800 iso - 125 shutter speed and its too dark. it was 12 when i shot. so sun at its fullest. bright scene.

bult-in exposure was maxed out yesterday.

[ekbmuts]

Oh - you're CLIMBING in the tree...  Wow!  That IS adventurous.  My hat is off to you for trying to get that to work.

Now I understand the problem you are having:  Your slowest workable shutter speed is 1/125 sec based on your testing.  You want a high aperture (f-stop) and if you put your ISO too high you get noise.  I think that sums it up.

1.  I would start by opening up my aperture a bit.  I realize that a high f-stop is desired but I'm afraid we're going to have to make some compromises here.  Set it to f8.  That will double the amount of light entering your camera compared to f16.

2.  I don't know how high your ISO can go.  I'm guessing that on the camera you have that ISO 800 is already pushing it.  So leave that alone.

3.  In order to get a longer shutter speed (which you need in order to get a properly exposed image), we will have to work out a way to have that camera be steady without a tripod.  Is there any chance that you can make/purchase some sort of rig that you can attach to the tree branches?  Do you have a cable release so that you can fire the camera without touching the button?  That way you could maybe hold it steady against a tree with one hand and fire it with the other.

4.  Unlikely, but if you can get hold of a better camera that has a higher working ISO range, that would probably solve the problem.  I'm talking about one of these new Canons or Nikons that has an ISO that will go up to the hundreds of thousands.  With a camera like that, you could shoot with 1/125 shutter and f16 and get properly exposed images.

There is nothing wrong with what you are doing.  There is nothing wrong with your camera either.  But one of these 3 things: shutter speed, ISO or aperture has to change for you to get a proper exposure.

PS.  I hate to dampen your enthusiasm but shooting a tree might not turn out as you are hoping.  Trees have many fine, fine details and are subject to moving around in the wind and environment, etc.  Furthermore, you are going to have to take a LOT of photos to get it to come out, especially if you are climbing around IN the tree, as you are.

In my personal experience, Photoscan does not like fine detail like hairs, branches, thread, etc. and it doesn't like moving objects, even moving a little bit.

So if this is the first thing that you are attempting to do in Photoscan, I would recommend starting with something simpler so that you can get a win at it.

If not, and you're determined to make this work, I hope the above suggestions are of some help.

Jon

[Shade3]

My camera's ISO goes to 25600 but it looks like i dumped flour on top of it. 

[ekbmuts]

That's a bummer on the flour.  25600 sounds a bit high anyway but I don't know. Maybe your camera shoots noise-free at 25600 but I doubt it.

You know, Manfrotto makes these little adjustable arms that will clamp to almost anything and connect to the camera on the other end.  That might be perfect for you.  You'd attach one end to a tree branch and the other to your camera.  Then move your camera into position and shoot away.  I think you'd need a cable release so you can keep your hands off the camera body itself. But the little arms are great for this scenario.

Jon

[Shade3]

F8 looks great!
Any opinions how it would look after texturing? Will i get blurry patches on textures?
Any one shoots below F10 out here? 

[ekbmuts]

Shade3,  Great.  I don't know about blurry patches on your textures.  But blurry is not directly related to f-stop values.  It's more related to shutter speed.  If you move AT ALL while you're shooting your photos and your shutter speed is slower than minimum handheld speed, you WILL get blurs.

So let's say you're shooting at 1/125 sec.  That should be fine.  Of course if you're jumping up and down in the air, it won't be fine but generally speaking 1/125 is good for freezing gentle to moderate movement.

It depends on your focal length.  At 50mm, safe handheld speed is (supposedly) 1/50 sec.  At 200mm, safe speed is 1/200 sec, etc.  That's just a rule of thumb.

With that in mind, depth of field decreases when you open up your aperture.  For example, at f2 you will have a lot of out of focus areas in your image.  At f16, you will have more IN focus areas in your image.

You should study up on this if you're not familiar with it.  It will make your photography life far less confusing.

Basically, a high f-stop (f16) and a fast shutter speed (1/125) with a low ISO (100) is a perfect scenario.  Rarely do all these things come together and so you have to make compromises somewhere along the line.

Jon

[Shade3]

I'm cranking up my ISO to 4000. f8 didnt work out.
can you post the settings you use handheld? better if u have couple of situations like sunny - cloudy. or diffrent time of day. if u have photos throw it in to your post too.   

[ekbmuts]

Shade3, I wish it were that easy.

It's not just generic settings.  An overcast day will require different camera settings.  A sunny day will require different settings.  A bright studio shoot also requires different settings. 

I can tell you this:

I do my best to keep my aperture at f16 so that I get the most that I can in-focus.

I do my best to keep my ISO below 400, preferably 100 to eliminate noise as much as possible.

My shutter speed is what's left.  If I can't hand-hold and meet the requirements of aperture and ISO, I use a tripod or some other form of support.

You'll go round and round all day long trying to get good results when it's impossible without a tripod or some sort of camera support.  Sometimes hand-held just doesn't work.

Jon

[Shade3]

I figured out the best settings. Thank you.