Samsung NX1000

[RalfH]

andy_s,

why would that be better?

[andy_s]

My [too simple ?] thought is that there will be less physical deformation between adjacent chunks and therefore better non-rigid registration.

e.g If a linear sequence is attempted then a longer time will have elapsed between the "right hand side" of chunk 1 and "left hand side" of chunk 12 ? [compared to chunk 1-> chunk2 -> chunk 12 etc].

I'm sure i'm gloriously confused at the minute     

[andy_s]

My [too simple ?] thought is that there will be less physical deformation between adjacent chunks and therefore better non-rigid registration.

e.g If a linear sequence is attempted then a longer time will have elapsed between the "right hand side" of chunk 1 and "left hand side" of chunk 12 ? [compared to chunk 1-> chunk2 -> chunk 12 etc].

I'm sure i'm gloriously confused at the minute   

Or rather "chunk 1 -> chunk 12 -> chunk 2 etc as per my previous terms [or maybe even chunk 0 -> chunk 11 -> chunk 1 etc [i never know whether to call my first finger "finger 0" or "finger 1" - is that a sign of dyslexia, alzheimer's, genius or just plain old stupidity ?  ]

[Infinite]

Just my 2 pence worth..

In this type of work and research "the sword is mightier than the pen" ...honestly. You can write down as many scenarios, numbers, angles and ideas as much as you need, but once you start to physically test ...things change a great deal! factors and issues you didn't think of.

The other way is to render a virtual scenario and input those images into Agisoft. Which is much more helpful - http://www.ir-ltd.net/scan-of-a-scan

There is lots of scan data out there you can test virtual cameras with in a 3rd party application.

[andy_s]

I both appreciate and agree with your comments Lee.

Practice does make perfect as your example demonstrates - and thanks for the link !

There's a few reasons why I can't [just yet] start the experimentation route, so in the meantime [i'm afraid] it's talk / think.

[Infinite]

I both appreciate and agree with your comments Lee.

Practice does make perfect as your example demonstrates - and thanks for the link !

There's a few reasons why I can't [just yet] start the experimentation route, so in the meantime [i'm afraid] it's talk / think.

But that's my point, you can experiment now, virtually. It saves some head aches.

[andy_s]

I know Lee, but I think i'd rather get pscan professional [not really sure why yet]. In the short-term, that would need a higher level sign off by Mrs andy_s who has a couple of higher priorities. In the meantime i'm spending a while over at camera axe just watching videos and trying to get up to speed on photography a little more. It's another amazing little item - love how it can measure shutter lag [nearest ms] without an oscilloscope !

[mala]

Don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but.....

I think this whole rotating camera rig idea is likely to give you huge problems and end up being more expensive than just buying more cameras.

I have experience of shows that use very very expensive motion control rigs..

One particular one for a world famous female singer comes to mind....after the first week in, of a three week pre production run, the whole rig minus some motors and front end control was thrown in a skip..a waste of over ?150K.
That was with the best people in the business trying to get it to work..


First problem that comes to mind with your rig is cabling...things are going to get messy and tangled very quickly.

The kind of speeds you are talking about moving at, is surely going to result in vibration/wobble from deceleration / acceleration unless you have a very stable (read heavy) rig with a perfectly level track this is going to keep pushing cost up...Heavier rig..bigger motors/gearing to drive it.

Your rig needs to be perfectly balanced..

If you are talking about moving in perfectly repeatable "steps" than you need very accurate indexing..more expense.

Finally...stay away from CFL...they are terrible, they flicker and the CRI of the light is really bad, you would be much better off with medium to high quality current driven LED fixtures.

sorry...

[RalfH]

I agree with mala. Just get more (but perhaps cheaper) cameras.

[FoodMan]

as for lighting, HMI is the best... and no heat..

[andy_s]

As usual Merry, Ralf, FoodMan, I really appreciate your comments and [tend to strongly] agree with them.

However, with (a) non rigid software a [as yet] total unknown variable (b) multi-pole capture sure cuts down movement...it may still be worth a little investigation....but yes, I would prefer a bag of NX1000's if the wifi can do what Mr Hart's software currently [hopefully] will do on other cams.

Foodman, if you didn't get your triggers yet then you may be interested in the camera axe: seems you can chain multi-optoisolators boards with it. The camera axe itself only introduces [approx] one quarter ms lag and chaining multi opto-isolator boards only a further microsec.

[mala]

I strongly suspect that a Non Rigid Alignment software solution will cost you a lot more than simply buying some more cameras and tripods / poles....

[FoodMan]

thanks Andy, not yet, but I will surely go with the breeze app... no time to look all kinds solutions...

[Magnus]

Hello all!

Lee, very true about "the sword is mightier than the pen" That's actually why I like to build and actually try the ideas I have because there are so many variables that one probably has not accounted for. I've found this countless of times. As just one example I was testing a mirror rig (first surface mirrors set up in an array so as to divide one viewpoint into stereo or even quadviews), lots fun and many things learned but ultimately abandoned due to calibration issues (software side), hehe.
I just wanted to talk a little about my particular rig plans. Motorization not actually needed, exact stops is not an issue. Rotation is an option (static subjects might atleast benefit) not something that is critically important. I could just add a turntable in the middle or just add more cameras.
Trivial to add more poles (for more cameras so as to get instant capture coverage) and changing its dimensions.
Cabling is, as I have planned it, actually very simple, even if some rotation occurs (should be noted that at most there would be a quarter circle of rotation).
The speeds, if rotating, is something I have not decided on yet, camera shutter, flash recharge and wobble etc. will decide those things.
I will have spent about 3000 to 4000 SEK (roughly 350 to 450 EUR) for it when completed (not counting motorization) and if not used for this particular end I will at worst have a huge, sturdy and portable light tent.
Hopefully I will be able to show it pretty soon.

mala, I know what you mean with CFL, but there are some excellent fluorescent lights like Kino Flos which is commonly used for movies. Here's a short video from Shane Hurlbut where he talks a little about them http://vimeo.com/18614336 I can really recommend checking out his videos for anyone who is into video/film.
Peter Hurley uses them for portraits http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpKsuP0NlzI Ofcourse this does not mean it should be used for what we are doing here.

Foodman, funny you bring up HMI, not too long ago I read this http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?244000-HMI-how-not-to-die I really wish I could get some (for video/film) but the price is very offputting, hehe.

And, surprise, I actually have something on topic
mala, when the camera is in wifi mode, which I assume it must be set to on the dial for it to transfer or be controlled, the corded usb remote works fine without changing any settings?

Best, Magnus.

[mala]

Hi Magnus,

Hadn't realised that rotation was just an option or that you were managing to get the parts so cheap..so I apologise.

In regards to rotation and head/face capture..when I was doing some early tests with my LED dome and did not have a lot of cameras, I sat the subject on a rotating seat and took photos from 3 x 450D arranged in this kind of pattern :

             x
   
  x                    x

so one camera looking slightly down on to the subjects face and 2 cameras looking slightly up to the face.The 2 lower cams were perhaps 40cms lower than top cam and I think about 80-90cms apart.
Subject was about 1M from cam.
I then had the person rotate to face one camera at a time whilst taking a photo on all 3 cameras for each position.

The results were actually very good and I was surprised how well the models came out of Photoscan.
Sure there was some small movement and mis-alignment in some cases...but keep in mind this was just a quick experimental setup whilst I waited for more cams.

Regarding KinoFlo....yes I know people use them for all sorts of filming,they are still expensive though..and they still don't work very well at the high frame rates now appearing with likes of Phantom or other high speed cameras.
They also do not turn on/off fast...if that is important for you.

Why anyone outside of a large film set would want to use HMI I have no idea...not only are the fixtures expensive but so are the lamps and they don't last very long..and use a lot of power.
It's an Arc lamp! ..this really is old inefficient technology..gives you a great suntan if you don't have the UV protector on it as well...we used to have to work on some old moving light fixtures with the lamp struck but the cover removed (it was the only way to align the gobo wheels accurately)..arc eye is not fun!

The technology of LEDs and even the newer Remote Phosphor LED kit have been around a quite some time in my world of event lighting.
But these technologies are only just starting to be excepted by the film/tv/photography world.

The problem is that there have been a lot of cheap crap LED fixtures from places like China..and this is what a lot of people think all LED lights are like.
Whereas well designed and built LED fixtures can in fact have a higher CRI than Kinoflos,use far less power and last for at least 50,000 hrs.

Sometimes I think Film crews just like carrying around huge heavy lights that need need their own generator to run!

Back on subject...
 Yes the NX1000 needs to be set to the WiFi option on dial to use those functions..
    the USB remote will NOT work for some reason whilst these modes are chosen..

The USB remote DOES work when any mode other than WiFi is selected.

Stupidly I have only just tested this and found the usb remote doesn't work when in WiFi Mode.
Maybe something can be done with SmartShooter regarding this...

I think as Andy wrote way back in this thread..it might be better to wait and see what Samsungs new offerings are in March...if rumours are true and the cameras are actually running Android...then thats a bit of game changer, really opening up them up in terms of programming/control hopefully.

Cheers
mala