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Author Topic: DJI Phantom 4 RTK  (Read 7525 times)

SAV

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DJI Phantom 4 RTK
« on: October 16, 2018, 05:09:06 AM »
This is great news for everyone some people working in the field of UAV photogrammetry. DJI just released the Phantom 4 RTK.

www.dji.com/phantom-4-rtk

Regards,
SAV
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 11:51:43 AM by SAV »

JMR

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Re: DJI Phantom 4 RTK
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2018, 01:56:48 PM »
Well, it's not really good news for everyone. At least not for me.
For more than two years I have invested enormous amounts of effort, time (stolen from my wife and children) and money, with the help of a single partner in the adventure of creating and launching Drobit. A powerfull advanced PPK system that is easy to integrate and use on any aircraft or mobile platform. I have argued many times against the widespread skepticism of those who have not wanted to believe that direct georeferencing is not only possible, but also advantageous with respect to the traditional approach of ground control points.
I have had to endure reading dozens of messages from supposedly expert people discrediting the PPK solution for aerial mapping even without ever having made a scientific analysis with facts that can support their disbelief.
Many of these trolls will now run to give their bucks to the Asian giant, and will still allow themselves to assess so seriously about the audacity lost by Western companies. They will say that in Europe and America ther is no longer innovation, no inventions, no manufacturers... so we have no choice but to buy from the Chinese who are better than us...
Now I have 12 brand new Drobit sets on the shelf and a new pcb batch order that I must put on hold...
That's why I regret, SAV, that you have not received with the same enthusiasm the efforts of small brave companies, and instead you are making free ad to the benefit of an already unstoppable monster that does not need your applause to dominate and depredate the entire world suas market.
Excuse my bad mood today
Kind regards
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 03:16:27 PM by JMR »

Alex737

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Re: DJI Phantom 4 RTK
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2018, 02:20:27 PM »
just like my thoughts

Diego

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Re: DJI Phantom 4 RTK
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2018, 02:56:27 PM »
Totally in agreement with JRM, I have been working in photogrammetry for more than 20 years and personally the solution is much better using PPK

Alvaro L

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Re: DJI Phantom 4 RTK
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2018, 11:06:10 AM »
We have been told for years that DJI could not release a DJI GS app for our P4P plus in built screens because of android and voil√†, they release a mapping app in their P4 RTK solution with an android  in-built screen.

Integrated solutions = full vendor lock-in, planned obsolescence, uncertain amortisation time.

If you don't believe me, ask matrice 210 rtk buyers how they feel 'bout this.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 11:23:40 AM by Alvaro L »

VHZN

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Re: DJI Phantom 4 RTK
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2018, 11:17:17 AM »
For those who don't know the difference between RTK / PPK / GCP, there is a very good article i just found:

https://www.identifiedtech.com/blog/drone-technology/gcps-ppk-rtk-best-receive-fast-accurate-data/

SAV

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Re: DJI Phantom 4 RTK
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2018, 12:20:15 PM »
JMR, I can understand your 'pain'. This was not supposed to be an ad for DJI. Sorry if it felt like that.

Besides your business DROBIT there have already been a number of other (small and brave) companies fishing in the same waters, as far as I am aware of.
- EMLID: https://emlid.com/reach/
- KLAU PPK: https://www.klauppk.com
- TOPODRONE: http://eng.topodrone.ru/reviews/blog-dji-phantom-4-pro/
- BAAM.TECH: https://baam.tech/ppk-dji-phantom/

I am confident that there are still plenty of niches that can/need to be filled by smaller companies (such as yours). DJI is a massive company, which makes them less flexible and agile. You, however, have the advantage to produce customised solutions and to deliver a personalised service. I think that for a lot of customers the whole package is important (including service & support), not just the product. Hardware/technology-wise alone it is quite difficult to compete with DJI (e.g., have a look at Parrot which is also a massive company but struggles against DJI).

Regarding PPK capabilities. I completely agree with you. Direct georeferencing can deliver highly accurate results. There are a number of white papers and studies available on the internet which confirm your statement.

All the best and keep up the good work.

Regards,
SAV
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 03:13:47 AM by SAV »

aerial_survey

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Re: DJI Phantom 4 RTK
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2018, 01:34:49 AM »
RTK might be good, but working for a Surveying Company, how do you check your RTK Data? We always use independent ground control to check at least 10 areas randomly, a lot of people out there just think its correct, without any checks, pass data to client.

Note: We had some LIDAR data captured for us by drone, we checked their RTK data with our Ground control, its was OVER 2m OUT!! BEWARE!! :-[

We now do the work ourselves.

They made bad mistakes, Trust your Surveyor!

SAV

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Re: DJI Phantom 4 RTK
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2018, 03:15:32 AM »
I agree with aerial_survey. It's still advisable to use 'traditional' ground control points for QA/QC purposes.

Regards,
SAV

Dieter

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Re: DJI Phantom 4 RTK
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2018, 09:20:14 AM »
Yesterday I was at the Intergeo in Frankfurt (Germany). There the Phantom RTK was presented.
The manufacturer (DJI) specified the accuracy as + - 5 cm. These accuracies are only achieved under laboratory conditions (without shading by buildings or something similar).

This is not enough for us as a survey office and we will continue to work with control points on the ground and without RTK.

Dieter

Alex737

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Re: DJI Phantom 4 RTK
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2018, 09:31:43 AM »
5cm accuracy is stable, tested many times.

Work performed on the Phantom 4 ppk:
http://www.instagram.com/737gnss/

stihl

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Re: DJI Phantom 4 RTK
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2018, 10:47:33 AM »
Regardless whether this particular RTK setup is stable or not - like 'aerial_survey' mentioned it's still mandatory to perform the measurements of control points scattered throughout your project site. If you have nothing to check your data against to it's pretty much useless from a surveyor perspective. In other words, you'll still be spending time walking around your project site and measuring points with RTK-GPS.

Furthermore it's interesting to think whether you'll even want to use RTK for the drone positioning and not just stick to PPK which has numerous advantages.

jansawicki

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Re: DJI Phantom 4 RTK
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2018, 03:07:55 PM »
Is there anyone who has made some actual tests of the newest Phantom RTK? I agree that always we need to check the accuracy on some checkpoints, but without GCPs, what accuracy can be expected? I don't believe in 1-2cm stated by DJI, but is it closer to 15cm or 50cm? Can anyone share some processing reports?
Cheers

BobvdMeij

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Re: DJI Phantom 4 RTK
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2018, 08:04:33 PM »
Is there anyone who has made some actual tests of the newest Phantom RTK? I agree that always we need to check the accuracy on some checkpoints, but without GCPs, what accuracy can be expected? I don't believe in 1-2cm stated by DJI, but is it closer to 15cm or 50cm? Can anyone share some processing reports?
Cheers

We're currently at 3-5cm XY and 5-10cm vertically, without using a single GCP. Accuracy was validated using 19 independent Checkpoints surveyed by RTK-GPS.

That being said the workflow is still not optimal, we've also not yet tried working with the camera calibration parameters provided by DJI. Hence we're expecting results to improve even more. So far it's quiet impressive what we're seeing.

Ps. The flight was conducted at 70m AGL and 75/75 overlap. Missiontype in the GS RTK app was set to 3D Photogrammetry, resulting in a crossgrid pattern with the camera at 60 degrees. We also did a simple 2D (single grid) mission which, although indicating similar horizontal accuracies, showed significantly reduced vertical accuracy.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 09:13:36 PM by BobvdMeij »

kusanik

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Re: DJI Phantom 4 RTK
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2018, 10:37:04 PM »
I have Phantom 4 RTK but I have not tasted yet.

At this stage I am trying to find out if there is possibility to use UgSC for DJI app for this drone as I am going to use it for mountainous regions with terrain aware function.

There is also PPK option in it, but it need time to test it also.